[Reader-list] God still doesn't want us.

Cyril Gupta newsgroup at cyrilgupta.com
Wed Dec 18 21:54:14 IST 2002

More Free Speech.

You said...
Yeah we all need that, BUT freedom to do what, deicide yourself
If you were alllowed kill, etc...
question you may ask, why would you kill,
Say you dont' have food to eat and the other person is eating like helll
What will you do, snatch, may require what you didnt' wanted to do...

My view...
The word 'Freedom' does not imply lawlessness. Don't be mistaken, 'Freedom' 
actually means that you are not oppressed by un-just rules and regulations 
that hurt your basic rights and you have the basic resources needed to live 
your life your way (Someone living below the poverty line is hardly free). 
When I said 'Freedom', I definitely didn't mean lawlessness. That should 
have been obvious.

You said...
BTW there was a research conducted around 60's in Europe
why the crime rate is HIGH, every one presented there views
scientists concluded that illiteracy is the reason, So most of the
governtments deicided to educate people, increase the literacy rate

After 10-20 yrs what happened with literacy over 200% increase in
CRime rate..

My view...
First, literacy may not be the only of the rise in crime rate. There might 
be some other social or economical factors responsible for this.  What you 
have presented is just a stat, it doesn't prove that Literacy caused the 
rise in crime rate. In fact it isn't even successful in establishing any 
sort of relationship. It's just a stat. I might as well say that in 60s the 
people were good, and now people are twice as bad, it's the hole in the 
ozone layer.

Secondly, literacy is the capability to read & write. I'd to like to 
emphasize on education in which the person is also taught social skills, 
responsibility and vocational skills.

Thirdly, Spiritualism is not going to help prevent crime. Had it helped 
there would have been no crimes in medieval India when we had a sort of 
spiritual revolution. Crimes can be prevented 1) By curbing crime-prone 
individuals 2) By removing the need to commit the crime 3) By ensuring 
speedy justice.

You said...
Not at all, rather we are devoting it a lot less than it requires.
We are doing it alll wrong, we are reading it, Instead
listen to what it means, rather than listening to what it reads.

My view...
I do not know what you mean by 'listen to what it means, rather than listen 
to what it reads.' I have heard enough religious people on TV and in 
person, and they all mouth the same 10-20 cliches. A giant load of bull if 
you ask me. Why don't we concentrate on the progress of our families and 
our country instead?

You said...
What is GOD? , trying to answere that ques. is not easy.
No comments in here, my views differ drastically from everyone
here, If believer or not...

My view...
What is God? Or is there a God? Try to find answers now and you will end up 
answering the question  the same way that the ancients answered 'Why do we 
have day & night' and come up with gems like 'The sun revolves around the 
Earth', 'The Earth is flat' etc. And if you are fanatically obsessed with 
your beliefs, you will want to burn the heretics. Instead, work towards 
true knowledge. The fact is, there are no answers embedded in your heart. 
At least they're not the right answers.

You said...
Religion is there for the people without knowledge, to give them what
they lack,
Completely wrong you are, as more knowledge means more relevance of
religion..., as an eXample from "Guru Granth Sahib Ji" if you are familier with
is the HOly book of Sikhs..
Around 450 yrs ago, it was written(started though), says
"Patala Paataal lakh akaasa akaash"

means there are uncountable more Earth's and sky's
What has science just proved lately.
there are numerous more examples that if you try to go through the
book will know, and not even a single phrase is there which has been
said it is wrong.

My view...
I don't intend to talk about any particular religion, but religion as a 
whole. We should attempt to make sure that this discussion does not center 
about any particular religions.

Anyway, like I said earlier, our wise-men interpret fantastic things from 
the pages of our religious texts. Sometimes, those things may not even be 
what the author wrote. And yeah, science has not proved that there are 
lakhs of Earths and Skies. There are 'Planets'. 'Eaths and Skies' is very 
inaccurate as many of them don't even have an atmosphere, and no other 
planet has known to contain life . Why didn't the religious text use the 
correct word if the author was all knowing? Most religious texts are 
stories, and poetry.

You said...
Again wrong, Spiritualism is not one of there goals.....

without religion there is no Spiritualism
without Spiritualism there is no knowledge,
Without knowledge there is no life,

My view...
Why is spiritualism a Goal? Who made it a Goal? What benefits do we get by 
moving towards Spiritualism? Why isn't a better life a goal? Why isn't 
social growth a goal? Can you please DEFINE Spiritualism?

You said...
It is raining you need water to drink, you have an empty bowl
But what if you keep bowl upside down rain wont' fall in it
same is the case of mind, if you keep your mind closed,
letting nothing in.

My view...
This an example of what a religious leader would say in this situation. Why 
is that, that most of us are so easily impressed by the clever use of 
language. Why do we find crafty adages, metaphors and  comparisons somehow 
enlightening? The mind is not a Bowl, and religion is not rain. These are 
just fancy words. Why can't the issue be discussed in all honesty?

The fact is, I have kept my mind open. My mind would have been closed, had 
I believed that God is the reason and solution for all things, like my 
grandma did (She prayed for 2 hours everyday during her entire life). My 
mind would have been closed had I blindly believed what the religious texts 
and religious leaders told me. My mind would have been closed had I not 
dared to challenge the authority of God on our lives, accepting just like 
everybody else that we are puppets in his game.

Open mind is about accepting new ideas, challenging rotting beliefs.

My bowl my friend, is right side up.

You said...
Don't expect to see the light at end of the tunnel, until
the other end is a straight line. You need to read, learn deep
to admire religion..

My view...
I have read, and I have seen and my disdain for religion grows with time.

You said...
I believe in myself, my quantum self, in my molecules, in my atoms
But DAMN where did they come from.

Philosophy is not way of life, it is life....

My view...
How do you know that GOD is the right answer to your question? Just because 
a religious text says so? And you'd probably believe that religious texts 
are written by divinity. Have you ever, ever thought of questioning your 
beliefs. If you have not, how can you say your viewpoint is 
balanced/accurate. Most of us are like that, born in a particular religion 
and led by the religious texts and gurus of that religion into 
un-questioning belief, and when somebody tries to question the beliefs, 
he's ostracized or worse, stoned.

If you can believe that science has proved that there are 'countless skies 
and Earths', why can't you believe in the Big Bang theory? Why don't you 
try looking for the answer in physics books instead of religious texts?

Try and go beyond the religious texts, try writing one yourself. You could 
be our next messiah.

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