[Reader-list] Guests in Vedavati's house

Rahul Asthana rahul_capri at yahoo.com
Thu Aug 9 05:04:47 IST 2007

So your anger is against secular leaders,filmwalas
etc. Well I concur with you.In my opinion so called
liberals never had any idea of real politik.But thats
why they dont dictate politcs in this country.Do you
think that Kashmiris are anywhere near to
self-determination than they were in say, 1948? No! 
Ok now let me establish where I come from.I oppose
self determination both on an ideological and
pragmatic basis.As long as the Kashmiris keep talking
about self determination,Kashmir will remain a police
state and innocent people of every religion will keep
getting screwed.Sad, but true. Also, though I
recognize the moral right of the jihadi to fight for
self-determination, nation states do not work on such
canonical moral principles and in that context,I
recognize the jihadi as my enemy and will pay tax to
kill him if necessary.
But,I am against stuff like AFSPA,which gives the army
power to kill without accountability.(By the
way,people in NE states are screwed way beyond the
kashmiris can ever imagine by the army)I believe that
the organized army of a nation state should be held to
stricter principles than terrorists/jihadis etc,so
that there should be some protection to the innocent
people. I hope your views would not to be much


--- Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com> wrote:

> it may appear childish but  i can't help it.
>  it is very easy to show liberalism, secularism( not
> with its true essence, i am talking about typical
> indian secularism), tolerance towards terrorists
> when you are not at the receiving end. my husband
> being a kashmiri pundit, lost his ancestral property
> in shrinagar, many of his relatives are still
> staying in refugee camps, (and our secular leaders,
> filmwalas have not got time in last 18 years to
> visit those camps),  two of his best friends were
> gunned down by yasin malik, they were 'punished' by
> the latter for being members of rss. (please don't
> say that he worshipped mahatma hence he killed the
> rss members.)
> and if we decide to apply same logic then hindus
> should also start killing members of muslim league
> because they partitioned our country. 
> all you seculars who keep ridiculing my thoughts on
> nationalism imagine yourself in the group of
> kashmiri migrants or 1947 sindhi-punjabi migrants
> who were advised by mahatma to go back to their
> motherland and get abused/killed by muslims in
> pakistan.
> and then talk about these sweet/goody-goody
> principles
> vedavati
> > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:54:02 +0100> From:
> sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: Guests in
> Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com;
> reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want
> to offend you, but your analogy sounds> too childish
> to be taken seriously (although I don't> mean to
> demean children by saying that!). The complex>
> history of south Asia cannot be trivialized like
> that.> Even if we could use this analogy, then, I
> think our> house has been so huge and so resourceful
> that it> didn't mind having a few guests from
> outside taking> refuge in it. And they didn't come
> as guests - they> came to do trade and business,
> just as your (and my)> brethren and sistren go to
> America to becomes NRIs.> Now, once these
> "outsiders" decided to call it their> home, they are
> no longer outsiders (whether they are> born here or
> came from outside). As a matter of fact,> how can
> even you prove that you are an "insider". Just>
> because you are a Hindu? > > Having said that, now
> let's talk about the guests> taking over the house
> and asking the owners to leave.> Yes, if they do so,
> it is wrong. (But remember, no one> can claim to be
> the "original" resident of this house> - its been
> too damn long to argue on that). So, you> have no
> authority to ask Shuddha or me to leave the> country
> if we do not subscribe to the hollow words> called
> Patriotism and Nationalism.> > I am not commenting
> on any specific case (such Sanjay> Kak's film, which
> I haven't seen). But in general, I> believe that the
> exodus of the pundits from Kashmir is> a sorry
> affair, and if one has to find a long-term> solution
> to the Kashmir problem, it must involve the>
> re-location of Kashmiri pundits safely in their>
> original homes. But at the same time, the brutality>
> suffered by the innocent Kashmiri Muslims at the
> hands> of Indian forces cannot be wished away. And
> if Kak's> film (or anyone else) does take sides,
> then it is> bound to lead to this kind of situation.
> Let us stop> taking sides and come to the middle
> ground if need to> resolve any of our conficts.> >
> S.Fatima> > > --- Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com>
> wrote:> > > I will try to answer this question, > >
> > > Imagine a situation, 10 people, say your friends
> or> > distant relatives come to your house & start
> staying> > with you, they expect you to accomodate
> them> > permanently, they expect you to do
> everything for> > them, they try to do away with
> your wife's/mother's> > authority & establish their
> supremacy in the> > kitchen. > > And ultimately they
> ask you to leave your house &> > take refuge
> elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be> > liberal
> in this case? Will you not try to protect> > the
> rights of your wife/mother?> > Be honest & give me
> the reply!> > > > These guests are outsiders and you
> will definitely> > try to throw them out. In a way
> you are showing> > narrowmindedness but you can't do
> without that.> > Because that is not in your
> family's interest.> > > > Same thing is applicable
> to your nation. > > 'Nationalism means doing
> everything which is in the> > interest of your
> country' (e.g killing terrorists in> > Kashmir or
> flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from> > Bengal or
> Assam.)> > > > Still if you say that 'you are
> neither a nationalist> > nor a patriot' then I am
> sorry to say so, but you> > have no right to stay in
> my country! > > > > Vedavati> > > > > > Do you get
> hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to
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