[Reader-list] FW: FW: Guests in Vedavati's house

Pawan Durani pawan.durani at gmail.com
Fri Aug 24 10:20:12 IST 2007

Why are you all obsessed with RSS ? Who in India does not play relegios
politics ? If you can name one , i would provide a counter argument.

Let us discuss facts instead of being Psuedo.

Pawan Durani

On 8/24/07, Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com> wrote:
> From: vrjogi at hotmail.comTo: rgdj12 at yahoo.com;
> reader-list at sarai.netsubjectSubject: RE: [Reader-list] FW: Guests in
> Vedavati's houseDate: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 02:11:34 +0000
> in last 60 years india has been ruled by 'secular' parties only. i really
> wonder why these secular parties are recruiting fundamentalists?if muslims
> have proved their merit in it industries then on first place why are they
> running after govt. jobs which don't offer lucrative carrer.i would like
> to suggest people like you should go to pakistsn & bangladesh and see the
> condition of hindu minorities. still if you are not satisfied, then better
> you migrate to pakistan where 100% seats are researved for muslims. stop
> poisoning minds of people.
> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 00:22:53 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: RE:
> [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.com
> There are so many organisations naming them is not a solutions and as far
> s the merit of muslims candidates are concern then I must say that they are
> getting jobs in IT sector, private companies just on thier merit...but in
> government jobs and in organisations where there are hindu fundamentalists
> acting as recruiter Muslims have no place... as you are an hardcore RSS
> member go and ask their ideology.....you will get your answer....
> Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com> wrote:
> again & again i am telling you, give me the names of those organizations.
> unlike govt. org. in private org. only merit counts if muslims can not
> compete with others how do you expect employers to absorb them just because
> they are muslims.?
> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:22:48 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: RE:
> [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.com
> There are so many muslims unemployed youth who were convent educated but
> failed to get job just because they are muslim and the recruiters are hindu
> fundamentalists, go n inquire i public sector as well as in private you wud
> come to know the ratio of muslims and hindus in employment. without any data
> dont shout praising the terrorist RSS people. If you find the data a flase
> propaganda then it is your lack of wisodn or knolwdge about your own country
> and the people who run reilgion politics...
> Pls be update before claiming your point......Vedavati Jogi <
> vrjogi at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 'The high ranker hindu fundamentalists closed all the doors for muslims
> aspirants in civil services, judicial system, in public sector, etc.
> Thereffore the demand for rservation and implementation of Sacchar committee
> is right step to recognise Muslim as Indian citizen.'
> ............................................................................................................this
> is absolutely a false propaganda. madarasa educated muslims cannot do well
> in competitive exam how can you blame hindoos for that?  Abdul Hamid was the
> recipient of paramveer chakra, how can you say that he did not get
> recognition?..............................................................................................................'
> Muslim should send their children in regional or english medium shcools but
> the sad part is that the authority of these schools rejects muslims
> aplication citing reason that they wont be able to pay fees. Means they have
> no right in India to get admission in these
> schools.'.............................................................................................................
> this is again a false propaganda. give me the names of those schools i will
> go and question them.this is the way you socalled secularists poison the
> minds of muslims and you remain safe during riots while poor commonpeople
> from both the sides have to bear the brunt.
> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 04:32:57 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: Re:
> [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.comCC:
> reader-list at sarai.net
> Hello Vedavati,
> whatever points you have drawn here are nice but I would like to say that
> the RSS people who are in the high rank of Indian judicial, constitutional
> system have done blunder by erasing the contribution of Muslim freedom
> fighter.  Abdul Hamid was never got his due as a major contributor during
> Pakistan war. without knowing the truth how can u say that Afzal Gurur was
> the main culprit behind Parliament Attack, even Professor Geelani was also
> arrested just because he was Kashmiri, but he fight the Indian judicial
> system and he comes clean, don't you think that Geelani should need Indians
> sympathy?
> As far as the history is concern I must correct you that it is RSS who
> changed the history randomly and the recently furing the BJP government they
> changed the history of Mahatma Gandhi's death. You talked about the 20
> million Hindus raped, killed and wounded duirng partition in 1947. But that
> would you say abuot the tens thousands of innocent Muslims had been burnt
> alive, raped, killed , cut into pieces in various part of India even today
> such as Bhagalpur,Mumbai, Gujarat, Calcutta, Delhi, and so on. The leader
> Modi, H.L. Bhagat, sajan Kumar, Advani, Singhal,Thakerey and the like
> ordered their men to wipe out the areas and vilages dominated by the Muslims
> in broad day light but still they are scotfree while the case agianst them
> gettting dates after dates in the court in order to save them.
> Muslims have all the right to demand justice against their killers. The
> high ranker hindu fundamentalists closed all the doors for muslims aspirants
> in civil services, judicial system, in public sector, etc. Thereffore the
> demand for rservation and implementation of Sacchar committee is right step
> to recognise Muslim as Indian citizen.
> you are right Muslim should send their children in regional or english
> medium shcools but the sad part is that the authority of these schools
> rejects muslims aplication citing reason that they wont be able to pay fees.
> Means they have no right in India to get admission in these schools. As far
> as the madrasa is concern it only teaches religious teachings and as a
> MUlsim they have the right to religion. why not you asked the sishu vihar or
> other RSS run schools to be closed where the education is based on hindu
> mythology leading the inocent children into darne ages.
> It is the RSS and BJP who plays religion politics. We all know how BJP
> comes into power in centre and how in states by inciting communcal violence.
> Dot forget to mention when Hindus become majority Gujarat, Mumbia, Bhagalpur
> happens time and again.
> you are true it is high time hindu fanatics should change thier views of
> making India a hindu rashtra, they cannot throw biggest minority out of the
> country. They shoud, give respect and equal opportunity to Muslims.
> Think and then say!
>    Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com> wrote:
> From: vrjogi at hotmail.comTo: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in;
> reader-list at sarai.netSubject: RE: Guests in Vedavati's houseDate: Mon, 20
> Aug 2007 04:52:10 +0000Sorry fatima, I could not get back to you earlier as
> I was not in town. I read your mail very carefully, I too would love to
> discuss certain issues with you as I am also interested in solutions.Ifully agree with you when you say that one must be tolerant & compassionate
> towards one’s countrymen. An Indian irrespective of his race, religion &
> creed who loves India and who has national interest foremost in his mind is
> my brother/sister. I worship war martyres like Abdul Hamid. I love Rafi,
> Lata, Amitabh, Shahrukh, Sachin, Irfan, Sania etc. in equal measure. But
> when you say ‘being patriotic is not the only solution’ it surprises me,
> do you expect me to be tolerant towards person like Yasin malik?To prove
> one’s secular credentials do you think it is necessary to sypathise with
> Afzal Guru only because he is a Muslim?Secondly you have said that majority
> of Muslims did not want to join Pakistan but they had to migrate to pakistan
> to escape violence. Here I beg to differ . This may be a ‘secular’
> History written by Congress or Left parties. But real History tells
> something else. When Jinnah was a follower of Lokmanya Tilak and wanted to
> be known as ‘Gokhale’ of Muslim community, Muslims did not look upon him
> as their leader moreover he was sidelined even humiliated by Mahatma Gandhi
> who preffered to join hands with Ali brothers. ( This policy prevails even
> today â€" A truly secular Muslim leader Arif Mohammad Khan is not acceptable
> to Muslims as well as Seculars )Its an unfortunate fact that when Jinnah
> became religious fanatic and demanded Pakistan Muslims wholeheartedly
> supported him without which Pakistan would not have been a reality. Jinnah
> alone could not have achieved it. But majority of Muslims stayed back in
> India because their daily bread & butter was here. You have mentioned the
> plight of many muslims who had to migrate to Pak only to suffer. But what
> about those 20 million Hindoos who were killed, wounded, raped & thrown out
> of Pakistan? One major difference was while in Pakistan even head of the
> state the then PM Liyakat Ali was encouraging & supporting his countrymen in
> wiping out Hindoos from Pak; here in India Mahatma stood between Muslims &
> Hindoos and protected the former with the help of his ultimate weapon
> ‘Upwas’ (which he had never dared to use against Muslims.)Fatima I
> don’t have anything against Muslims who stayed back in India. Plight of
> poor muslims and that of poor Hindoos is same. But if muslims have chosen to
> stay in India it is their resposibility to accept ‘Uniform civil code’
> or ‘Family planning’. It appears they can understand only their rights
> like reservations & implementation of Sacchar committee report. But with
> rights comes responsibility too. What is practised in India is not
> secularism, it is minoritism which is the mother of secessionism. Instead of
> sending their children to Madarrasa muslims should send their children to
> regional language or english medium schools. Secondly nobody has stopped
> them from giving equal rights to their female folks. To preserve their
> separate identity they don’t do that. And unfortunately this separatism
> gets political nourishment. Wherever muslims are in minority they are very
> demanding, and when they become majority community then ‘pakistan’
> happens, ‘kashmir’ happens’. You may or may not accept it, but it is
> hightime muslims changed their ways. > Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:26:03 +0100>
> From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: RE: Guests in Vedavati's house>
> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com; reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't
> want to indulge in any sweet goody-goody> principles nor ridicule your
> thoughts. I am honestly> interested in a dialogue for resolving issues. And
> I> would love to engage in a debate with you if we both> are interested in
> solutions. I feel that being> patriotic or nationalistic towards your
> homeland is> not the only solution. Being tolerant and> compassionate
> towards your fellow countrymen would be> more preferable.> > I said in my
> previous mail that I understand the pain> of all those who have been
> affected by the violence,> hatred and displacement, whether Hindus or
> Muslims.> Partition did not affect only the Hindus. Majority of> Muslims did
> not want Pakistan (this has been proven> historically), and had to migrate
> to escape the> violence. You may go and see the plight of many> migrated
> Muslims who left their home in India to go to> Pakistan - they still suffer.
> Both communities have> equally suffered, especially in Kashmir - do you
> agree> with me on that? If you tell me whether you agree or> disagree on
> this, we'll discuss it further. Let us use> this forum for a healthy debate
> rather than a> stone-pelting excercise. (And I take back any words> that may
> have hurt you.)> > S.F.> > --- Vedavati Jogi wrote:> > > > > it may appear
> childish but i can't help it.> > > > it is very easy to show liberalism,
> secularism( not> > with its true essence, i am talking about typical> >
> indian secularism), tolerance towards terrorists> > when you are not at the
> receiving end. my husband> > being a kashmiri pundit, lost his ancestral
> property> > in shrinagar, many of his relatives are still> > staying in
> refugee camps, (and our secular leaders,> > filmwalas have not got time in
> last 18 years to> > visit those camps), two of his best friends were> >
> gunned down by yasin malik, they were 'punished' by> > the latter for being
> members of rss. (please don't> > say that he worshipped mahatma hence he
> killed the> > rss members.)> > and if we decide to apply same logic then
> hindus> > should also start killing members of muslim league> > because they
> partitioned our country. > > > > all you seculars who keep ridiculing my
> thoughts on> > nationalism imagine yourself in the group of> > kashmiri
> migrants or 1947 sindhi-punjabi migrants> > who were advised by mahatma to
> go back to their> > motherland and get abused/killed by muslims in> >
> pakistan.> > and then talk about these sweet/goody-goody> > principles> > >
> > vedavati> > > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:54:02 +0100> From:> >
> sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: Guests in> > Vedavati's house> To:
> vrjogi at hotmail.com;> > reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't
> want> > to offend you, but your analogy sounds> too childish> > to be taken
> seriously (although I don't> mean to> > demean children by saying that!).
> The complex>> > history of south Asia cannot be trivialized like> > that.>
> Even if we could use this analogy, then, I> > think our> house has been so
> huge and so resourceful> > that it> didn't mind having a few guests from> >
> outside taking> refuge in it. And they didn't come> > as guests - they> came
> to do trade and business,> > just as your (and my)> brethren and sistren go
> to> > America to becomes NRIs.> Now, once these> > "outsiders" decided to
> call it their> home, they are> > no longer outsiders (whether they are> born
> here or> > came from outside). As a matter of fact,> how can> > even you
> prove that you are an "insider". Just>> > because you are a Hindu? > >
> Having said that, now> > let's talk about the guests> taking over the house>
> > and asking the owners to leave.> Yes, if they do so,> > it is wrong. (But
> remember, no one> can claim to be> > the "original" resident of this house>
> - its been> > too damn long to argue on that). So, you> have no> > authority
> to ask Shuddha or me to leave the> country> > if we do not subscribe to the
> hollow words> called> > Patriotism and Nationalism.> > I am not commenting>
> > on any specific case (such Sanjay> Kak's film, which> > I haven't seen).
> But in general, I> believe that the> > exodus of the pundits from Kashmir
> is> a sorry> > affair, and if one has to find a long-term> solution> > to
> the Kashmir problem, it must involve the>> > re-location of Kashmiri pundits
> safely in their>> > original homes. But at the same time, the brutality>> >
> suffered by the innocent Kashmiri Muslims at the> > hands> of Indian forces
> cannot be wished away. And> > if Kak's> film (or anyone else) does take
> sides,> > then it is> bound to lead to this kind of situation.> > Let us
> stop> taking sides and come to the middle> > ground if need to> resolve any
> of our conficts.> >> > S.Fatima> > > --- Vedavati Jogi > > wrote:> > > I
> will try to answer this question, > >> > > > Imagine a situation, 10 people,
> say your friends> > or> > distant relatives come to your house & start> >
> staying> > with you, they expect you to accomodate> > them> > permanently,
> they expect you to do> > everything for> > them, they try to do away with> >
> your wife's/mother's> > authority & establish their> > supremacy in the> >
> kitchen. > > And ultimately they> > ask you to leave your house &> > take
> refuge> > elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be> > liberal> > in this
> case? Will you not try to protect> > the> > rights of your wife/mother?> >
> Be honest & give me> > the reply!> > > > These guests are outsiders and you>
> > will definitely> > try to throw them out. In a way> > you are showing> >
> narrowmindedness but you can't do> > without that.> > Because that is not in
> your> > family's interest.> > > > Same thing is applicable> > to your
> nation. > > 'Nationalism means doing> > everything which is in the> >
> interest of your> > country' (e.g killing terrorists in> > Kashmir or> >
> flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from> > Bengal or> > Assam.)> > > > Still
> if you say that 'you are> > neither a nationalist> > nor a patriot' then I
> am> > sorry to say so, but you> > have no right to stay in> > my country! >
> > > > Vedavati> > > > > > Do you get> > hundreds of mails everyday? Delete
> none. Go to> >>
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