[Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrested aDelhi-basedJournalist
we wi
dhatr1i at yahoo.com
Fri Apr 11 09:58:48 IST 2008
Dear Partha,
In secular INDIA its my view! this is my direct answer to you ONLY Partha. The reason is you never read, though read do not understand, whether understand try to behave the contents appear to you as alien. There should be a PA like personality to explain you what is there, what is what, what is the meaning. Probably that is the reason you COUSIN asked you to visit this list. If you read SHUDDHA response to RADHIKARAJEN mail,
"""""*******#####%%%%% > >>For all I care, you could be a Brahmo Samajist, a Seventh Day Adventist, a lapsed Roman Catholic, a de-sexed pagan cyobrg in dire need of therapy or a born-again, paranoiac, alcoholic (or abstinent)
Santan Dharmi who spends way too much time on the internet.>>>%%%%%####*******""""""
look at the above lines and read my mail carefully then respond to me.
FYI i just copy paste the my old mail again
Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2008 6:07 pm
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrested aDelhi-basedJournalist
To: reader-list at sarai.net
> Haha Exhausted Suddhabrata,
>
> >>For all I care, you could be a Brahmo Samajist, a Seventh Day
> Adventist, a
> >>lapsed Roman Catholic, a de-sexed pagan cyobrg in dire need of
> >>therapy or a born-again, paranoiac, alcoholic (or abstinent)
> Santan
> >>Dharmi who spends way too much time on the internet.
>
> I contradict over and above with the term "alcoholic Santan
> Dharmi"? What do you exactly mean by using that term? I observe
> the possible conclusions as
>
> 1) One should not follow "Sanatan Dharm" at all?
> 2) All ALCOHOLICS in INDIA or abroad mystifying the
> world as "Sanatan Dharmis"?
> 3) Those who are all following "Sanatan Dharm" are
> ALCOHOLICS? 4) Those who ever following "Sanatan Dharm"
> do belong to
> BAJARANGDAL,VHP,BJP,RSS,SHIVSENA?
> 5) "Sanatan Dharmis" not at all present in CONGRESS,CPI
> and CPM?
>
>
> Possibly the 2nd one is most suitable and correct anyway,
>
> Please let me know how much can be gained for a defamation as I
> am fighting a minor litigation, I am thinking to file a
> "defamation" as well. I request you please don't ask a service
> charge for this.
>
> Regards,
> Dhatri.
>
to this mail Shudda didn't responded yet and radhikarajen wrote something else.
and you started murmuring to my reply on that. Any way Thanks for your suggestion. YOU DON'T WORRY, WE WORK TOGETHER FOR INFRASTRUCTURE, and NATION BUILDING.
Regards,
"DHATRI".
Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com> wrote: Dear Dhatri,
1. Do try and remember the constitution of India. It is a 'secular' nation
and if you are unclear of what that means, there are plenty of references.
In short, the law (and the constitution) are separate from religion.
Unfortunately, many politicians have used caste and religion as vote banks.
If what is being said still isn't clear, Dharma is the Hindu code of religion and
morals or religious and moral duty. Being a secular nation, India has to take
all religions and views into count and can not follow Dharma for the law - much
like we have different Hindu, Muslim, Christian and Special marriage acts (maybe
more for all I know). Similarly, Rajdharma can not be the law in a secular nation,
that is, unless you are a fanatic asking for Hindu 'Talibanisation' of India.
2. What ever Kamala Nehru or MK Gandhi may have done, what is the relevance
to the post on the journalist? If none (at least none that I can see) and you want
a personal opinion of Shuddha (as you have stated) then it would be sensible
- and considerate to other members of this list - to have mailed him personally
instead of posting this tangent in the middle of an unrelated debate.
Rgds, Partha
..............................
On 4/10/08, we wi <dhatr1i at yahoo.com> wrote: Hi,
I am expecting the response should be from SUDDHA, a founder member of SARAI. The "defamation" I mentioned was nothing to do with current topic on list or with politics. As suddha spoke about "Indian Penal Code" I just put that question to use it as a suggestion.
For fruitful results, ANY LAW SHOULD ABIDE DHARMA(1/4th at least as we are into KALI ERA), But is that so? The answer is a definite NO. LAW IS DIFFERENT AND DHARMA(SANATAN OR ADHUNIK) IS DIFFERENT. Hence the conflicts.
Next Coming back to comment on allegations that were made by you,
1) Passing or failing ICS or any degree/pg/diploma is a criteria to become something
then and now?
Late Mr.M.K.Gandhi would have took the lead to rule India as he agreed for partition based on fallacious 2 Nation theory fearing for Number of casualties, for which the country has been suffering 60 years(apart from 1000 years worst rule, lets say) in terms of .....(any body can fill the blank as per their thought).
Any other leader would have took the initiative to rule INDIA after partition and Independence. What forced them to agree upon Mr.Nehru unanimously?
As Mr.M.K.Gandhi do have children, why was he adopted FEROZ(its against the dharma)? Either of his or anybody children would have married to a PARSI. Does anybody consulted shri KAMALA NEHRU about her daughter marriage and consider her opinion?
What was the Nation doing when a HINDU(brahmin) FAMILY was being CONVERTED to CASTE LESS? It clearly tell us rest of the people are so ORTHODOX irrespective of their CASTE and literacy levels. It tell us INVADERS SUCCEEDED OVER INDIA WITH THIS KIND OF THOUGHT AGAIN.
Autocratic or democratic, RAJADHARMA is so power full and one need to understand it, digest it and dare to execute it. Both late Mr.Nehru and late Mrs.Indira experienced UNNATURAL deaths, one because of BACKSTABBING and the other because of CONSPIRACY. They too human beings and they were ruled the country in a better way. Their period was over.
Whatever it may be the case WE fond of Mr.NEHRU family.
Regards,
Dhatri.
radhikarajen at vsnl.net wrote:
Hi,
it is not at all surprising when thoughts of dissent are expressed, the method of suppression are time tested and have not found success, first, the step one is to discredit the person and not the thoughts, next step two is holding out threats of "legal" actions, third step, use the brute force, to harass phyisically, mentally by false cases, it is not new as to how legally any dissenter can be cowed down by threats , violent protests.
Nation has seen it in emergency days of a autocratic ruler.Now with drug and kickbacks in deals money power is threatening to extinguish the freedom, then centuries ago, one voice which told truth was poisoned, one voice which explained that earth was revolving around the sun had the eyes gauged out.
But power of thought is such that if truthful, it remains in the minds of the readers, they like it or not, support it or not, the issue remains.
New generations of India have doctored histrory of freedom struggle of India, go with that as their perspective for the learning experience. It is one voice from remote Maharashtra, of Bala gangadhar Thilak, that inspired many others to become BalGangadhars of the struggle. It is one voice of lala Lajpath rai that inspired many to become the lalaLajpath rai. It is one voice of Bipin Chnandra Pal, that inspired many to be the stronger voice for freedom. Ofcourse all the one voices were repressed brutally, killed, but the struggle went on, as the fruits of freedom are now enjoyed, all credit is to one family which had a person who hobnobbed with viceroys, spent his confinement in guest houses, but the family took the surname of Gandhi, to be mother of all sacrifices, wherein reality check, there are thousands who sacrificed their life and livelihood to alll of us to have freedom.
Nethaji was not the first who passed ICS exam but refused to serve under british regime, dissent cost him dear. Nehru who had failed the ICS, after enrolling at british Bar Council came back as Barrister, but issue here is was he a visionary that he is projected as for free India. ?
The very same left parties which condemned Nethaji as fascist supporter now have with them the Forward Block even though with uncomfortable to share power, so let us not be sensitive to such oppressing threats of "defamation."
Basic issue here is again, it is not about religion, or the journalist, was he out on reportage of true facts or was he reporting to his community of milli gazette, or was he reporting to all citizens of the nation. ?
Regards.
----- Original Message -----
From: we wi
Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2008 6:07 pm
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrested aDelhi-basedJournalist
To: reader-list at sarai.net
> Haha Exhausted Suddhabrata,
>
> >>For all I care, you could be a Brahmo Samajist, a Seventh Day
> Adventist, a
> >>lapsed Roman Catholic, a de-sexed pagan cyobrg in dire need of
> >>therapy or a born-again, paranoiac, alcoholic (or abstinent)
> Santan
> >>Dharmi who spends way too much time on the internet.
>
> I contradict over and above with the term "alcoholic Santan
> Dharmi"? What do you exactly mean by using that term? I observe
> the possible conclusions as
>
> 1) One should not follow "Sanatan Dharm" at all?
> 2) All ALCOHOLICS in INDIA or abroad mystifying the
> world as "Sanatan Dharmis"?
> 3) Those who are all following "Sanatan Dharm" are
> ALCOHOLICS? 4) Those who ever following "Sanatan Dharm"
> do belong to
> BAJARANGDAL,VHP,BJP,RSS,SHIVSENA?
> 5) "Sanatan Dharmis" not at all present in CONGRESS,CPI
> and CPM?
>
>
> Possibly the 2nd one is most suitable and correct anyway,
>
> Please let me know how much can be gained for a defamation as I
> am fighting a minor litigation, I am thinking to file a
> "defamation" as well. I request you please don't ask a service
> charge for this.
>
> Regards,
> Dhatri.
>
> Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote:
> Radhikarajen,
>
> I am curious to know, where in the post by Arshad Amanullah you
> have
> read that the journalist, Nadim Ahmad, had violated any law? Which
> law do you think has been violated? Where (in Arshad's posting) do
> you find the evidence of this violation?
>
> The report forwarded by Arshad mentions the editor of Mr. Ahmad's
> newspaper citing conversations with a police officer about the
> journalist, his whereabouts and his assignment, and even the
> police
> officer who is quoted in the forwarded report does not seem to
> indicate that the Mr. Ahmad had broken any law. Which leap of
> imagination then impels you to make the assumption that he had?
>
> I find it disgusting that you should assume that the journalist
> has
> violated any law whatsoever, without any stated proof to that
> effect.
> All that we can surmise from reading the above mentioned report is
> that Mr. Ahmad was doing his job - making enquiries in a
> completely
> legitimate manner, as journalists are supposed to do. Morover,
> nowhere, in the posting that Arshad has forwarded, is there any
> reference to Mr. Ahmad's faith, or his relationship to an
> organization called SIMI, and yet, I can see that you cannot
> resist
> the cheap temptation of stating that - (and I am quoting you
> directly here)
>
> - "he is journalist (sic), that does not mean he is above the law,
> he
> can do anything to go anywhere and even sheltor (sic), support and
> shield the few fanatics because he is journalist, that is when
> conflict of interest comes in free India, when religion is used to
> propagate hatred, to foist violence, like the SIMI now banned
> does.
> If system of governance arrests a few, who are in subversion of
> laws,
> planning violent acts in the guise of religion and its freedom,
> laws
> have to take care of such deviant behaviour in free society."
>
> Where, in Arshad's posting do you find grounds to believe that the
> journalist, "sheltered, supported and shielded" any "fanatics"? Is
> it
> only on the grounds of his name, and what we can learn about the
> possibility of his beliefs, again on the basis of that name. What
> can
> we learn on the basis of a name. If I take your name for instance,
> I
> cannot even tell whether you are male or female, whether you are
> Hindu, or a person of another faith, or no faith at all, who
> happens
> to have the Sanskrit names of a hindu deity (Radhika) and the term
> for a royal personage, (Rajen) attached to his/her name. For all I
> care, you could be a Brahmo Samajist, a Seventh Day Adventist, a
> lapsed Roman Catholic, a de-sexed pagan cyobrg in dire need of
> therapy or a born-again, paranoiac, alcoholic (or abstinent)
> Santan
> Dharmi who spends way too much time on the internet. Your name
> gives
> me no real indication whatsoever, actually. And any negative
> judgements that I, or anyone esle would make about you, your
> motives,
> your character, your personality on the basis of your name would
> be
> totally indefensible. If I had to make judgements, they would have
> to
> rely on your actions and your statments, not your name.
>
> Now, let us assume that I was a journalist, trying to investigate
> the
> detention of the activists of a supposedly 'Hindu' organization
> like
> the Bajrang Dal. Now let us further assume that I was arrested, in
> the course of doing so. Would you, or anyone else, then be taken
> seriously, if you or they, made a statement to the effect that I
> was
> arrested, because I was "sheltering, supporting and shielding" the
> activists of the Bajrang Dal (because Shuddhabrata Sengupta
> sounds,
> in an appropriately deadpan Sanskritic way, like an ostensibly
> 'hindu' name, though it actually says next to nothing about my
> personal convictions in the matter of religion).
>
> Such an allegation, if it were not backed by any substantive
> proof,
> would be patently absurd. Similarly, your implicit allegations
> (which
> infer connections and convergences of purpose between SIMI
> activists
> and Nadim Ahmad solely on the grounds of the incidental 0 and
> therefore irrelevant - marker of Mr. Ahmad's name), are equally
> absurd.
> You, sir, or madam, or whatever you may be, are the true fanatic
> here. You cannot resist making broad generalizations about other
> peoples' character based on nothing other than the sound of their
> name. It really shows how narrow the bandwidth of your
> intelligence
> and your imagination is.
>
> I think you owe this list an apology, and I suggest that you study
> the Indian Penal Code carefully before making flimsy allegations
> about being above or below the law. The law can be used quite
> effectively against people like you who make baseless and wild
> allegations about other people's character and conduct. I suggest
> you
> take a careful look at section 499 of the Indian Penal Code, it
> spells out the law of a crime called defamation. Be careful.
>
> no regards whatsoever, not to you, not this time,
>
> Shuddhabrata
>
>
>
>
> On 08-Apr-08, at 6:21 PM, radhikarajen at vsnl.net wrote:
>
> > Losten my friend, he is journalist, that does not mean he is
> above
> > the law, he can do anything to go anywhere and even sheltor,
> > support and shield the few fanatics because he is journalist,
> that
> > is when conflict of interest comes in free India, when religion
> is
> > used to propagate hatred, to foist violence, like the SIMI now
> > banned does. If system of governance arrests a few, who are in
> > subversion of laws, planning violent acts in the guise of
> religion
> > and its freedom, laws have to take care of such deviant
> behaviour
> > in free society. Be it a hindu, muslim or any faith, group of
> > individuals who are traitors to the society for the "religion"
> are
> > not citizens who deserve to be spared as law has to take care of
> > such deviant behaviour., irrespective of the system of
> governance,
> > or the political party that rules the state, why is it that some
> > point out such incidents as if system is against the faith, but
> not
> > against lawless behaviour by "journalist. ?
> >
> > Regatrds.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: arshad amanullah
> > Date: Monday, April 7, 2008 10:42 pm
> > Subject: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrested a Delhi-
>
> > basedJournalist
> > To: reader-list at sarai.net
> >
> >> www.milligazette.com
> >>
> >> New Delhi, 7 April 2008: Late last evening the police
> >> in the BJP-ruled state of Madhya Pradesh arrested a
> >> Delhi-based journalist who had gone there to report on
> >> recent arrests in the state.
> >>
> >> The journalist is Mr Nadim Ahmad, a staffer of The
> >> Milli Gazette fortnightly English-language newspaper
> >> published from Delhi since 2000.
> >>
> >> Ahmad was arrested by the police early 6 April evening
> >> in village Aroda/Choral under Balwada Police Station,
> >> Distt Khargone, Indore Range. Contact with Ahmad was
> >> possible until late in the evening on his mobile phone
> >> (# 09911334768). However, since this morning he is not
> >> picking up his phone while Police Inspector Sunil
> >> Visthre (mobile # 09926670086), who took Ahmad in
> >> custody, is not responding to calls on his mobile.
> >> Enquiries with highest police officials in Indore have
> >> failed to help trace the whereabout of the arrested
> >> journalist. The Milli Gazette editor, Dr Zafarul-Islam
> >> Khan, has written in this matter to Mr Shivraj Patil,
> >> the Union Home Minister, MP Governor Mr Balram Jhakar,
> >> MP Chief Minister Mr Shivraj Singh Chauhan, MP home
> >> minister Mr. Himmat Kothari, as well as to top police
> >> officials in MP state.
> >>
> >> If the journalist remains untraceable, Dr Khan plans
> >> to file a habeas corpus suit in the Supreme Court of
> >> India tomorrow, 8 April.
> >>
> >> [end]
> >>
> >> Issued by The Milli Gazette
> >> D-84 Abul Fazal Enclave-I
> >> Jamia Nagar, New Delhi 110 025
> >> Tel. (011) 26942883, 26947483, 26952825
> >> Email: edit at milligazette.com
> >> Website: www.milligazette.com
> >>
> >> Following is the text of the letter sent by Dr
> >> Zafarul-Islam Khan, Editor, The Milli Gazette, on 7
> >> April 2008 via fax, email and courier to a number of
> >> central and MP state authorities:
> >>
> >> "This is to inform you that we are a registered
> >> English-language fortnightly newspaper published
> >> regularly since January 2000 (registered RNI number
> >> DELENG/2000/930). A few days back we sent Mr Nadim
> >> Ahmad, one of our full-time staff reporters, to
> >> Sarangpur, Madhya Pradesh, to report on communal
> >> violence there. At about same time news of arrests of
> >> alleged SIMI members also came from an adjacent area
> >> in the state, so I instructed him to go to Indore as
> >> well to report on the situation there and to visit
> >> some places from where arrests were made. Mr Ahmad
> >> reached Indore yesterday, 6 April 2008, and after
> >> making enquiries about the location of the concerned
> >> areas, went to village Aroda/Choral under Balwada
> >> Police Station, Distt Khargone, Indore Range (Thana
> >> phone No. 07280-261237) whose in-charge is Town
> >> Inspector Mr Sunil Visthre (mobile no. 09926670086).
> >> Inspector Visthre spoke to me last night at around 8-9
> >> pm using Mr Ahmad's mobile no. 09911334768 asking why
> >> he was in the area. It was explained to him that Mr
> >> Ahmad was a full-time staff reporter of this paper and
> >> he was there at my instructions to report on the
> >> recent arrests. Inspector Visthre told me that there
> >> was nothing to worry about and Mr Ahmad is helping
> >> enquiries and he is not under arrest.
> >>
> >> My last contact with Ahmad was at 11.06 pm yesterday
> >> (6 April 08) on his mobile phone in which he said he
> >> is alright and was answering questions by the police;
> >> Inspector Visthre also spoke to me over the same phone
> >> at that time and told me that there is nothing to
> >> worry about as they were only trying to establish the
> >> reason why Mr Nadim was in the area.. Mr Nadim Ahmad's
> >> last call was at 1.28 am on 7-4-08 which I could not
> >> receive as I had gone to bed by that time. In the
> >> morning I tried to contact Mr Ahmad using his mobile
> >> number but there was no response. Thereafter, I phoned
> >> Balwada Thana at the above phone number and was
> >> informed that Inspector Visthre has taken Mr Ahmad to
> >> Indore in the morning at 6 AM. Efforts to contact Mr
> >> Ahmad since then have failed; Inspector Visthre too is
> >> not taking up calls to his mobile. After this, I
> >> phoned Indore Superintendent of Police Mr Anshuman
> >> Yadav on his mobile no. 09425115144 at 11.30 am (7
> >> April 08). He told me that he had no information about
> >> this matter.
> >>
> >> As of now, my apprehension is that Mr Nadim Ahmad has
> >> been arrested and kept under custody at an unknown
> >> place for no reason whatsoever as he was only
> >> discharging his duties as a journalist to investigate
> >> matters of common and media interest. I fear that
> >> under the current charged atmosphere in the state of
> >> Madhya Pradesh, Mr Ahmad may have been falsely
> >> implicated in some matter and illegally deprived of
> >> his liberty. I request you to immediately intervene in
> >> this matter and ensure the freedom of press guaranteed
> >> by our Constitution and laws."
> >> _________________________________________
> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> >> Critiques & Collaborations
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> >> subscribe in the subject header.
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> >> list
> >> List archive:
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net
> with
> > subscribe in the subject header.
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> > List archive:
>
> Shuddhabrata Sengupta
> The Sarai Programme at CSDS
> Raqs Media Collective
> shuddha at sarai.net
> www.sarai.net
> www.raqsmediacollective.net
>
>
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> subscribe in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-
> list
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>
>
>
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