[Reader-list] HOW SECULAR IS INDIA TODAY?

[Aditya Raj Kaul]

Prabhakar,

It was actually, Shuddha's usual introduction of his-own-self. How can he
not reflect his true street character ? :-)

He better stay in his comfort zone; in his dreams - the intellectual he is
!!

Love
Aditya Raj Kaul

On 10/18/08, Prabhakar Singh <prabhakardelhi at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Is it a way a member to address another member by calling him 'moron' and
> insult him? Moderator may please note and take action.
> Prabhakar
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net>
> To: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com
> Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
>
> Sent: Friday, 17 October, 2008 11:39:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] HOW SECULAR IS INDIA TODAY?
>
> Chanchal, you moron,
>
> 1. Hindus do have personal law in India, exactly as Muslims do, it is
> the Hindu Marriage and Inheritance Act.
> 2. Hindus in India have been converting Christians at gun point in
> Orissa. And there is no legal ban on Hindus converting people of any
> religion.
> 3. Hindus proselytize and convert people in other countries quite
> actively. Just follow the activities of ISKCON and other Hindu
> outfits. They do exactly the same thing as Christians, Muslims,
> Buddhists and atheists do, try to convince other people to join them.
> There is nothing wrong with that.
> 4. Talking about any religion, by anybody, does not make them
> communal. I can, and do, appreciate the Upanishads and criticize the
> Bhagwad Gita, and find different and diverse interpretations in the
> Quran and the Bible or the Talmud, or the Dhammapada. That makes me
> neither communal, nor secular. It just makes me a person interested
> in knowing more about religion and religious practice (regardless of
> how I see my own faith or doubts).
>
> WIth your numerous inteventions on this list you demonstrate that you
> are one of those Hindutva fanatics who actually know next to nothing,
> either of the religion you seek to uphold, or of the religions and
> ways of life you condemn. Since you consider yourself to be a proud
> Hindu, let me tell you, that your words, your pathetic prejudices
> actually bring shame and dishonour to your religion, exactly as the
> words, acts and prejudices of Muslim, Christian or Jewish fanatics
> bring shame and dishonour to theirs.
>
> Please leave us in peace and try not to subject us to the boundless
> depths of your ignorance.
>
> Shuddha
>
>
> On 16-Oct-08, at 10:50 PM, chanchal malviya wrote:
>
> > India is secular:
> > 1. Muslims have personal law, but there is no Hindu personal law
> > 2. Christians have rights to convert the Hindus, but Hindus do not
> > have that.
> > 3. Muslims get subsidy, Hindus pay subsidy
> > 4. Hindus are in lakhs in other countries and they are not engaged
> > either in conversion, but the same can be applied on them in their
> > own motherland
> > 5. Hindus can talk in support of Islam and Christianity to be
> > secular, but talking about Hinduism is communal
> >
> > Not to say the last words..
> > If all Religions are equal, why don't you convert to Islam or
> > Christianity once for all. The problem will end. The problem lies
> > because we chose to remain Hindu.
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 10/16/08, Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > From: Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] HOW SECULAR IS INDIA TODAY?
> > To: "Javed" <javedmasoo at gmail.com>
> > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> > Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 10:40 PM
> >
> > i think pakistan will be a better place  for you mr. Asghar Ali
> > Engineer.
> >
> > vedavati
> >
> > --- On Thu, 16/10/08, Javed <javedmasoo at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: Javed <javedmasoo at gmail.com>
> > Subject: [Reader-list] HOW SECULAR IS INDIA TODAY?
> > To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Thursday, 16 October, 2008, 11:26 PM
> >
> > HOW SECULAR IS INDIA TODAY?
> >
> > Asghar Ali Engineer
> >
> > (Secular Perspective October 16-31, 2008)
> >
> > There is always a big gap between theory and practice, theology and
> > history. Indian constitution, no doubt, is one of the best in the
> > world. It is truly secular in spirit so much so it was secular even
> > when word secular was not added to it until 1975 i.e. during
> > emergency. If it were truly implemented India would be an ideal
> > country to live in especially for minorities, both religious as well
> > as linguistic.
> >
> > However, as we all know there is big gap between theory and practice,
> > constitution and governance of the country. India was far more
> > peaceful after independence for number of reasons. Firstly,
> > nationalist leaders who had participated in freedom struggle and were
> > instrumental in framing the Constitution were still around and despite
> > various pressures, stuck to ideals and values to a great extent.
> >
> > Secondly, due to idealism and nearness to spirit of freedom nation as
> > a category and national identity was of great importance and often
> > caste, linguistic and religious divisions mattered less. Thirdly, the
> > process of economic development had just begun and yet people's demand
> > for share in development on caste and communal lines was not very
> > articulate and loud.
> >
> > Because of all this identity politics was still subdued and Marathi
> > versus non-Marathi, Tamil versus non-Tamil sentiments were not so
> > prominent. Hindu versus Muslims feelings were not so subdued due to
> > memory of partition but due to other factors communal violence was
> > still limited and had not assumed proportions of ethnic cleansing or
> > genocide like in Gujarat in 2002.
> >
> > It all began with series of communal riots in sixties assuming great
> > proportions in Ahmedabad in 1969 and Bhivandi in 1970. In Ahmedabad
> > nearly 1000 people were killed in Ahmedabad in 1969 and around 400
> > people in Bhivandi. But then communal violence remained in check until
> > 1977 when again some major riots took place in several places like
> > Jamshedpur, Aligarh and Varanasi etc.
> >
> > Again whole of decade of eighties was full of communal violence
> > climaxing in Mumbai riots in 1992-93. The Ramjanam bhoomi movement
> > once again polarized as on the eve of partition. Again there was lull
> > in communal disturbances from 1992-93 to 2002 when Gujarat took place
> > in 2002. Gujarat riots once again made communal situation quite
> > fragile and weakened secular ethos in the country.
> >
> > Now the identity politics soared quite high and national ethos
> > considerably weakened. Today everyone prioritize once caste, communal
> > and religious identity over national one. National rhetoric, as if,
> > has almost disappeared and even Hindutva forces talk more of Hindu
> > religion than of patriotism or nation. For them too Indian nationalism
> > has been replaced by Hindu nationalism.
> >
> > For Shiv Sena of course Maharashtra was always more important than the
> > Rashtra (nation) and those Hindus too who spoke Hindi the
> > Rashtrabhasha (national language) came under attack. Several Hindus
> > from U.P. and Bihar were mauled by Marathi speaking zealots belonging
> > to Maharashtra Navniram Sena (MNS), a splinter group from Shiv Sena.
> >
> > Now recently Christians who were never targeted before by the Hindutva
> > zealots have also come under attack. Christians, a mere 2.2 percent
> > minority and which has contributed so richly to the country in the
> > field of education and health services are being killed ruthlessly.
> > What is going on in Kandhmal district of Orissa and some adjoining
> > districts, is indeed hair raising.
> >
> > More than 40 Christians have been killed, a nun mass raped, a woman
> > burnt beyond recognition, more than 400 houses burnt and looted and 35
> > thousand have fled from their villages to relief camps. And what for?
> > A myth has been spread by the powerful machinery of Sangh Parivar that
> > all Christians convert. Remember RSS propaganda "All Muslims are not
> > terrorists but all terrorists are Muslims"?
> >
> > Orissa is another Gujarat both in brutalities and terrorization of
> > minorities. When Christians and Muslims are being so brutally targeted
> > the RSS Chief Sudarshan says that both Muslims and Christians convert
> > and Muslims want every one to become Muslim and Christians want all to
> > follow Christ and so Hindus must give fitting reply. And our rulers
> > just look on.
> >
> > When BJP was ruling over the country and whole country was
> > communalized we were feeling suffocated and felt liberated when UPA
> > took over and the BJP led Government defeated at the hustings. We
> > celebrated UPA's victory specially because it was supported by the
> > left which is the only hope for Indian secularism. However, left has
> > withdrawn its support on nuclear issue and once again we are feeling
> > suffocated in the communally surcharged state of affairs in India.
> >
> > However, what is most worrisome is that it is happening under UPA
> > Government which is supposed to be a secular outfit. Perhaps today
> > there is more suffocation than even under the BJP-led NDA Government.
> > The UPA has forgotten all its promises made to the country and is
> > betraying minorities and jettisoning its secular commitment. Prime
> > Minister Manmohan Singh is more occupied with his pet nuclear pact
> > with America than the communal explosion back home.
> >
> > The communal forces are growing stronger and stronger everyday and the
> > ruling coalition of secular forces is quite indifferent. The Home
> > Ministry is functioning quite in a lackadaisical manner. It has given
> > complete liberty to these forces and they are riding roughshod over
> > our secular values and constitutional forces. They never got such
> > license to function freely.
> >
> > The NDA Government liberally recruited RSS inclined candidates in all
> > key positions and they captured important academic positions too.
> > Also, RSS trained teachers and journalists also were recruited on
> > large scale. It is because of this that we find communally minded
> > people in all walks of life. The media also has been communalised as
> > never before.
> >
> > Today be it communal riots or terrorist attacks most of the newspapers
> > and T.V. channels publish police version unabashedly as if it is
> > ultimate truth. No questions are raised and it appears as if
> > investigative journalism has become story of the past. Media plays
> > most important role in strengthening democratic values and democracy
> > cannot survive without a critical and alert media. But it seems except
> > for few papers and magazines media has been completely communalised.
> >
> > Even a well-known Daily from south which was known for its strong
> > commitment to secularism appears to have developed, of late, subtle
> > communal slant. It is indeed very critical period for India. India is
> > well known as largest secular democracy in the world. But first
> > Gujarat and now Orissa has dented its secular image thanks to Hindutva
> > forces. Manmohan Singh was faced with the most embarrassing situation
> > abroad and he had to admit that what is happening in Orissa is
> > 'shameful'.
> >
> > But having described developments in Orissa shameful what has he done
> > to redeem it? He is quite hesitant to ban Bajrang Dal and resisting
> > demand of some of his own Congress party colleagues to ban it saying
> > we are watching and waiting for reports from Chief Minister of Orissa.
> > It is indeed more shameful than communal carnage in Orissa. Any truly
> > secular government would have dismissed Navin Patnaik Government for
> > its complete inability to control communal violence.
> >
> > So far I never believed that Indian communalism could take form of
> > fascism as many leftists had been saying all along. Today we see the
> > footprints of fascism in India. The situation is very similar to that
> > of Germany in the thirties. The unemployed hordes of lower middle
> > classes have joined Bajrang Dal and Vishwa Hindu Parishad in large
> > numbers and hailing Hindutva leaders. Some of the text books in
> > Rajasthan and Gujarat, both BJP ruled states are praising fascism and
> > Hitler.
> >
> > Also, the Central Government is appeasing these communal forces. It
> > appears though the Government at the Centre is of secular UPA but
> > agenda is of Sangh Parivar. The police appears to be taking orders
> > from Sangh Parivar rather than from ruling Congress or UPA. Riot after
> > riot be it in Orissa or Digras, Pusad or Dhule the police just looks
> > on when mobs loot and burn even during curfew hours.
> >
> > It is indeed very very worrisome situation. The UPA Government is
> > assisting the Sangh Parivar in every way possible. The police is
> > riding absolutely roughshod over minorities and latest example is
> > Batla House 'encounter'. Though the print and electronic media
> > abdicated its responsibility the human rights groups raised questions
> > and pricked holes in the police claim of encounter of 'dreaded
> > terrorists'.
> >
> > The situation is indeed very grave and unless secular forces unite and
> > play determined role things can get far more worse.
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>
> Shuddhabrata Sengupta
> The Sarai Programme at CSDS
> Raqs Media Collective
> shuddha at sarai.net
> www.sarai.net
> www.raqsmediacollective.net
>
>
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