[Reader-list] Ways of Life and Transgressions

[Tea BeeDi]

Hmm.. Who is not an artist?

Some how the following that a friend pointed out, in the context
of a conversation on dropouts, finds an 'artistic', 'religio' and
wordly stance against (hmm, for?) the fanatics of this conversation.
no? :)

-d

---

Leary, ~1960: "Like every great religion of the past we seek to find
the divinity within and to express this revelation in a life of
glorification and the worship of God. These ancient goals we define in
the metaphor of the present — turn on, tune in, drop out."

Leary later explained in his 1983 autobiography Flashbacks:
" 	'Turn on' meant go within to activate your neural and genetic
equipment. Become sensitive to the many and various levels of
consciousness and the specific triggers that engage them. Drugs were
one way to accomplish this end. 'Tune in' meant interact harmoniously
with the world around you - externalize, materialize, express your new
internal perspectives. Drop out suggested an elective, selective,
graceful process of detachment from involuntary or unconscious
commitments. 'Drop Out' meant self-reliance, a discovery of one's
singularity, a commitment to mobility, choice, and change. Unhappily
my explanations of this sequence of personal development were often
misinterpreted to mean 'Get stoned and abandon all constructive
activity'.

---


On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 8:34 PM, Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear Salim
> You are right, an artist should never have to explain. But Picasso probably never had people killing each others angered by his paintings. But (as we have discussed earlier on this theme) if you are doing an art for public, would you not be concerned if the public appreciates it? No one is born appreciating high art - we acquire a tastes for everything. The point is, whose responsibity is it to inculcate the appreciation of art in society? If its a Madhubani painting done on the facade of my village house by my mother, its very much there in my genes. But if it is a horse by Hussain kept in a gallery to which I have no access, somebody has to do a bit of explaining on why such art is distanced from social reality (which actually is not, but the market has made it look so).
>
> Yousuf
>
>
> --- On Wed, 9/3/08, inder salim <indersalim at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: inder salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Ways of Life and Transgressions
>> To: reader-list at sarai.net
>> Date: Wednesday, September 3, 2008, 7:14 PM
>> Picasso said, if it is possible to explian, it is futile to
>> paint.
>>
>> even if i we gnore picasso, who is an old hat in modern art
>> now, let
>> alone hussain sahib who is immensely supported by
>> investors, and 'post
>> colonialism' as theoritical justificaioin to do
>> whatever he or we
>> sometimes  are doing which can pass as derivate at the
>> best.
>>
>> what is education or what is not , what is offensive or
>> what is not,
>> is difficult to explain, if one chases the text, and its
>> meaning
>> profoundly...
>>
>> what we forget also is the fact that what we see are
>> phtographs of the
>> the original
>>
>> .and is photogaphy representing real, if so then we have
>> truly
>> disappeared from the face of this earth. and it does not
>> matter if
>> there is hussain or not,
>>
>> there is book by Jean Baudilard ' conspiracy of
>> art'
>> which speaks  the contemporary art practices , and that
>> makes us feel
>> that the whole world is in fact a piece of modern art work
>> , and we
>> are not there, simple not part of it.
>>
>> the question of relevance of hussain in our social
>> structures is open
>> to this sort of criticism,
>>
>>  but not once it lands as amunition in the hands of
>> fanatics.
>>
>> love
>> is
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Rahul Asthana
>> <rahul_capri at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > OK, I think we are almost on the same page now.If by
>> educating you mean explaining;then I agree.Hussein might
>> explain why his painting was not meant to
>> offend,alternatively he may realize how and to what degree
>> its offensive, and he may decide its not worth it.It should
>> work both ways.
>> > I have no stake in whatever is decided,but as
>> Kshmendra has mentioned,the emphasis should be on
>> understanding and respecting the other,not educating them.
>> >
>> > --- On Tue, 9/2/08, Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > From: Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
>> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Ways of Life and
>> Transgressions
>> > > To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta"
>> <shuddha at sarai.net>, rahul_capri at yahoo.com
>> > > Cc: "Sarai list"
>> <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> > > Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 11:03 AM
>> > > Dear Rahul
>> > > Why are you so scared of the word
>> "education",
>> > > and why are you seeing it in such limited terms.
>> If you look
>> > > at my last mail, I agreed that your solution #3
>> is good and
>> > > I'd be happy if it works. But I emphasized
>> about
>> > > dialogue as part of the education. Don't you
>> think
>> > > dialogue and communication between the two
>> conflicting
>> > > parties would be an integral part of even your
>> solution?
>> > >
>> > > What would you have to say about a
>> counselor/psychiatrist
>> > > who tries to resolve conflicts say between two
>> spouses.
>> > > His/her main role is to (a) know each side's
>> story, and
>> > > then (b) inform each spouse about the other's
>> problem
>> > > which was actually missing between them due to
>> long gaps of
>> > > non-communication. Most conflicts in the family
>> or society
>> > > occur because of the distance we create between
>> two parties
>> > > - we fear each other, imagine all sorts of
>> strange notions
>> > > about each other and strengthen the hatred about
>> each other.
>> > > If only we talked, we could have realized that
>> much of our
>> > > fears were baseless.
>> > >
>> > > Hence I am simply talking about creating bridges
>> between
>> > > two parties through communication. Why can't
>> we for
>> > > instance have a meeting/workshop between Hussain
>> and the
>> > > religious fanatics where they tell each
>> other's story
>> > > and try to explain why each party needs to be
>> sensitive to
>> > > others' feelings. I know this will not
>> entirely remove
>> > > either party's deep prejudices, and may lead
>> to further
>> > > flaring up, but some moderation may also happen.
>> But I would
>> > > again emphasize that those thoughts and ideas of
>> both sides
>> > > which are required for the dialogue should at
>> least be
>> > > available for everyone to see and understand. For
>> instance,
>> > > we only get to see a lot of hate-propaganda from
>> the
>> > > religious fanatics against the artist, but never
>> see any
>> > > effort from Hussain or the art fraternity to
>> explain what
>> > > this art is all about, and why he makes what he
>> makes. The
>> > > artist thinks that he/she doesn't need to
>> explain
>> > > anything.
>> > >
>> > > I am sorry, but I don't follow terms like
>> reductionism,
>> > > teleology, deontology, so maybe I am sounding a
>> bit rigid to
>> > > you.
>> > >
>> > > Yousuf
>> > >
>> > > --- On Tue, 9/2/08, Rahul Asthana
>> > > <rahul_capri at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > From: Rahul Asthana
>> <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
>> > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Ways of Life and
>> > > Transgressions
>> > > > To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta"
>> > > <shuddha at sarai.net>, ysaeed7 at yahoo.com
>> > > > Cc: "Sarai list"
>> > > <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> > > > Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 2:01 AM
>> > > > Dear Yousuf,
>> > > > Your argument is  what I call reductionist
>> (from
>> > > > dictionary.com=2.the practice of simplifying
>> a complex
>> > > idea,
>> > > > issue, condition, or the like, esp. to the
>> point of
>> > > > minimizing, obscuring, or distorting it.).
>> > > > When you talk about "millions of issues
>> in our
>> > > society
>> > > > which people used to take with orthodox
>> > > attitude",you
>> > > > are basically creating a straw man.Many
>> orthodox
>> > > practices
>> > > > have to be given up;we have no difference on
>> that.
>> > > > When two deontologies collide,we have to
>> present a
>> > > > teleological argument in favor of one or the
>> other.In
>> > > other
>> > > > words,when two value frameworks reach
>> conflicting
>> > > position
>> > > > on an issue,we have two ways we can approach
>> the
>> > > > conflict.The one who favors one value
>> framework should
>> > > > present a comparison of the two frameworks
>> in terms of
>> > > > social cost-benefit,or,The one who favors
>> one value
>> > > > framework tries to educate the other one to
>> their
>> > > system
>> > > > just because its "better".Do you
>> see the
>> > > > difference between the two?
>> > > > Now, in an engagement of two groups on
>> perceived
>> > > social
>> > > > cost-benefit,there will be conflicts.Its
>> hard to
>> > > imagine how
>> > > > two groups will have same perception of
>> social
>> > > > cost-benefit.But at least we would be trying
>> to
>> > > resolve
>> > > > issues within a teleological framework which
>> is a lot
>> > > better
>> > > > than "my way is better than your way
>> and you have
>> > > to be
>> > > > educated to my way".
>> > > >
>> > > > Regards
>> > > > Rahul
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > gate social cost-benefit,and not on the
>> basis of what
>> > > one
>> > > > group thinks is right.
>> > > >
>> > > > --- On Mon, 9/1/08, Yousuf
>> <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > From: Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
>> > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Ways of Life
>> and
>> > > > Transgressions
>> > > > > To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta"
>> > > > <shuddha at sarai.net>,
>> rahul_capri at yahoo.com
>> > > > > Cc: "Sarai list"
>> > > > <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> > > > > Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 9:12
>> AM
>> > > > > Dear Rahul
>> > > > > I understand your logic, but I think
>> your
>> > > alternative
>> > > > no.3
>> > > > > is too idealized and utopian to
>> achieve, although
>> > > I
>> > > > would
>> > > > > love if it works. Also, it may apply
>> only to some
>> > > > > situations, not all. For instance, if a
>> group of
>> > > > people
>> > > > > thinks that women are inferior and
>> should remain
>> > > > inside
>> > > > > homes, or that we should ruin the
>> environment by
>> > > > cutting
>> > > > > trees, wasting water and fuel, would
>> you allow
>> > > them to
>> > > > > believe and act on this? You may call
>> it my
>> > > > condescending
>> > > > > attitude, but why is it that we have
>> managed to
>> > > bring
>> > > > an
>> > > > > awareness and "reform" today
>> about so
>> > > many
>> > > > > millions of issues in our society which
>> people
>> > > used to
>> > > > take
>> > > > > with orthodox attitude. I am talking
>> about gender
>> > > > equality,
>> > > > > environment, education, health issues
>> (although
>> > > it is
>> > > > still
>> > > > > not enough). Nobody is born with
>> politically
>> > > correct
>> > > > genes -
>> > > > > we all acquire things as we grow. So
>> what's
>> > > the
>> > > > big deal
>> > > > > for instance about having arts
>> appreciation as
>> > > part of
>> > > > the
>> > > > > school curriculum or TV programmes.
>> Should we
>> > > allow
>> > > > our
>> > > > >  mainstream media to remain
>> condescending then?
>> > > Why is
>> > > > > television changing the attitude of
>> people - why
>> > > is
>> > > > our
>> > > > > society becoming more consumerist and
>> aggressive
>> > > and
>> > > > > prejudiced?
>> > > > > Look my condescending solution
>> doesn't
>> > > involve
>> > > > simply
>> > > > > education - I am talking about dialogue
>> and
>> > > awareness,
>> > > > and
>> > > > > not talking down somebody's throat
>> which the
>> > > TV
>> > > > does
>> > > > > today.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Yousuf
>> > > > >
>> > > > > --- On Sun, 8/31/08, Rahul Asthana
>> > > > > <rahul_capri at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana
>> > > <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Ways of
>> Life and
>> > > > > Transgressions
>> > > > > > To: "Shuddhabrata
>> Sengupta"
>> > > > > <shuddha at sarai.net>,
>> ysaeed7 at yahoo.com
>> > > > > > Cc: "Sarai list"
>> > > > > <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> > > > > > Date: Sunday, August 31, 2008,
>> 11:54 PM
>> > > > > > Yousuf,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I think i failed in getting my
>> point
>> > > across.No
>> > > > amount
>> > > > > of
>> > > > > > "education" would make
>> > > Hussein's
>> > > > art
>> > > > > > appreciated by some,and those who
>> are
>> > > offended by
>> > > > > > Hussein's art are no less
>> > > > "educated"
>> > > > > than you
>> > > > > > or me.
>> > > > > > Unless you get rid of your
>> condescension
>> > > about
>> > > > > educating
>> > > > > > people about what they should or
>> > > shouldn't
>> > > > get
>> > > > > offended
>> > > > > > by,any discussion about solution
>> to
>> > > conflicts
>> > > > like
>> > > > > this is a
>> > > > > > non-starter.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I am going to make one last try
>> though.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Say there are two groups A and
>> B,with
>> > > different
>> > > > value
>> > > > > > systems.A is offended by an act X
>> and B is
>> > > > > not,apparently
>> > > > > > due to their different value
>> systems. B
>> > > > encourages X
>> > > > > and
>> > > > > > this increases tensions in a
>> society where A
>> > > and
>> > > > B
>> > > > > live
>> > > > > > together.Lets see what are the
>> possible
>> > > > solutions.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > 1.Both A and B tell each other to
>> go take a
>> > > hike
>> > > > and
>> > > > > they
>> > > > > > would do according to how they
>> feel fit.
>> > > > > > 2.Both A and B are sure that their
>> value
>> > > systems
>> > > > are
>> > > > > > superior and they try to convert
>> each other
>> > > to
>> > > > their
>> > > > > own
>> > > > > > view points through dialog etc.
>> > > > > > 3.Both A and B recognize that
>> there are
>> > > > irreconcilable
>> > > > > > differences in their world
>> views.They also
>> > > > recognize
>> > > > > that
>> > > > > > they would respect the differences
>> and try
>> > > to
>> > > > honor
>> > > > > them to
>> > > > > > the extent possible while also
>> trying to
>> > > achieve
>> > > > their
>> > > > > own
>> > > > > > goals through whatever means
>> possible.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > If liberal fanatics like you will
>> keep on
>> > > > engaging in
>> > > > > > #2,(which in my opinion is even
>> worse than
>> > > #1
>> > > > because
>> > > > > #1
>> > > > > > does not involve condescension)
>> that you are
>> > > > doing
>> > > > > right
>> > > > > > now,you will always enable
>> religious
>> > > fanatics
>> > > > from the
>> > > > > other
>> > > > > > side who will try to convert you
>> to their
>> > > view
>> > > > > point.Why is
>> > > > > > their stand less valid than yours?
>> > > > > > If you engage in #3 ,you will
>> enable
>> > > moderates
>> > > > from
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > other side who will listen to you
>> if you
>> > > listen
>> > > > to
>> > > > > them.
>> > > > > > The big leap of understanding that
>> you need
>> > > to
>> > > > make is
>> > > > > that
>> > > > > > there can be two internally
>> consistent value
>> > > > systems
>> > > > > which
>> > > > > > will lead to opposing positions on
>> many
>> > > > issues,and
>> > > > > both
>> > > > > > these value systems are equally
>> valid.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Regards
>> > > > > > Rahul
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/31/08, Yousuf
>> > > > <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
>> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > From: Yousuf
>> <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list]
>> Ways of Life
>> > > and
>> > > > > > Transgressions
>> > > > > > > To: "Shuddhabrata
>> Sengupta"
>> > > > > > <shuddha at sarai.net>,
>> > > rahul_capri at yahoo.com
>> > > > > > > Cc: "Sarai list"
>> > > > > > <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> > > > > > > Date: Sunday, August 31,
>> 2008, 9:40 AM
>> > > > > > > When I mention education, I
>> primarily
>> > > > include
>> > > > > media in
>> > > > > > it.
>> > > > > > > But the media is careless and
>> works
>> > > only on
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > diktats of
>> > > > > > > industry and politicians. So
>> the prime
>> > > > > responsibility
>> > > > > > (of
>> > > > > > > making sure that their art is
>> > > appreciated)
>> > > > falls
>> > > > > on
>> > > > > > the arts
>> > > > > > > fraternity itself. At least
>> until we
>> > > find a
>> > > > > better
>> > > > > > solution.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > --- On Sat, 8/30/08, Rahul
>> Asthana
>> > > > > > > <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana
>> > > > > <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
>> > > > > > > > Subject: Re:
>> [Reader-list] Ways of
>> > > Life
>> > > > and
>> > > > > > > Transgressions
>> > > > > > > > To: "Shuddhabrata
>> > > Sengupta"
>> > > > > > > <shuddha at sarai.net>,
>> > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com
>> > > > > > > > Cc: "Sarai
>> list"
>> > > > > > > <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> > > > > > > > Date: Saturday, August
>> 30, 2008,
>> > > 9:58
>> > > > PM
>> > > > > > > > "They have not been
>> educated
>> > > to
>> > > > > appreciate
>> > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > nuances
>> > > > > > > > of the medium or the
>> > > message."
>> > > > > > > > Yousuf, I am sorry but
>> that's
>> > > > > > condescending.By the
>> > > > > > > same
>> > > > > > > > token a religious person
>> can say
>> > > that
>> > > > the
>> > > > > artist
>> > > > > > has
>> > > > > > > not
>> > > > > > > > been taught the nuances
>> of
>> > > religious
>> > > > > > sensibilities.My
>> > > > > > > point
>> > > > > > > > is that if two groups
>> having
>> > > different
>> > > > > values
>> > > > > > have to
>> > > > > > > > coexist in a
>> society,they have to
>> > > be
>> > > > > tolerant
>> > > > > > towards
>> > > > > > > each
>> > > > > > > > other.
>> > > > > > > > I do not advocate any
>> limit to the
>> > > > freedom
>> > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > expression,but there
>> should not be
>> > > > complete
>> > > > > > > callousness
>> > > > > > > > towards the feelings of
>> > > groups.Painters
>> > > > like
>> > > > > > Hussein
>> > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > other heretics would
>> always keep
>> > > > producing
>> > > > > works
>> > > > > > that
>> > > > > > > would
>> > > > > > > > offend,and perhaps thats
>> necessary
>> > > > too;but
>> > > > > if
>> > > > > > some of
>> > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > people in the media,and
>> I do not
>> > > mean
>> > > > the
>> > > > > media
>> > > > > > which
>> > > > > > > > actually represents
>> these groups,
>> > > can
>> > > > > understand
>> > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > voice
>> > > > > > > > their feelings,then
>> emotions would
>> > > > probably
>> > > > > not
>> > > > > > flare
>> > > > > > > up to
>> > > > > > > > that extent.
>> > > > > > > > That is the middle way.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 8/30/08,
>> Yousuf
>> > > > > > <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
>> > > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf
>> > > > <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
>> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re:
>> [Reader-list]
>> > > Ways of
>> > > > Life
>> > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > Transgressions
>> > > > > > > > > To:
>> "Shuddhabrata
>> > > > Sengupta"
>> > > > > > > >
>> <shuddha at sarai.net>,
>> > > > > rahul_capri at yahoo.com
>> > > > > > > > > Cc: "Sarai
>> list"
>> > > > > > > >
>> <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> > > > > > > > > Date: Saturday,
>> August 30,
>> > > 2008,
>> > > > 9:31
>> > > > > PM
>> > > > > > > > > Dear Rahul
>> > > > > > > > > I had difficulty
>> following
>> > > your
>> > > > first
>> > > > > > sentence
>> > > > > > > (and a
>> > > > > > > > few
>> > > > > > > > > others), but yes,
>> to put it
>> > > in
>> > > > simple
>> > > > > > language,
>> > > > > > > people
>> > > > > > > > have
>> > > > > > > > > been offended by
>> > > Hussain's
>> > > > > paintings,
>> > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > they are
>> > > > > > > > not
>> > > > > > > > > always at fault.
>> They have
>> > > not
>> > > > been
>> > > > > educated
>> > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > appreciate
>> > > > > > > > > the nuances of the
>> medium or
>> > > the
>> > > > > message.
>> > > > > > And the
>> > > > > > > art
>> > > > > > > > > fraternity
>> doesn't have
>> > > the
>> > > > urge to
>> > > > > go
>> > > > > > to the
>> > > > > > > > people and
>> > > > > > > > > explain what they
>> do and why
>> > > they
>> > > > do.
>> > > > > The
>> > > > > > > politician
>> > > > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > > course is too happy
>> to cash
>> > > in on
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > ignorance
>> > > > > > > of the
>> > > > > > > > > public.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Incidentally,
>> countless
>> > > > > > provocative/blasphemous
>> > > > > > > art or
>> > > > > > > > > statements have
>> been made in
>> > > the
>> > > > past
>> > > > > but
>> > > > > > not all
>> > > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > them
>> > > > > > > > > led to a public
>> outcry.
>> > > Almost all
>> > > > > known
>> > > > > > cases
>> > > > > > > where a
>> > > > > > > > piece
>> > > > > > > > > of art/literature
>> has led to
>> > > > violence,
>> > > > > are
>> > > > > > those
>> > > > > > > where
>> > > > > > > > > somebody (or some
>> political
>> > > party)
>> > > > used
>> > > > > them
>> > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > spread
>> > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > flames. In most
>> cases, the
>> > > > protesters
>> > > > > > haven't
>> > > > > > > seen
>> > > > > > > > or
>> > > > > > > > > read what they have
>> been
>> > > > protesting
>> > > > > against.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > So, should the
>> artists make
>> > > such
>> > > >> provocative
>> > > > > > > works
>> > > > > > > > only for
>> > > > > > > > > themselves or their
>> closest
>> > > > friends,
>> > > > > and
>> > > > > > never
>> > > > > > > allow
>> > > > > > > > them to
>> > > > > > > > > go public. Or
>> should they
>> > > (and
>> > > > their
>> > > > > > > institutions)
>> > > > > > > > create an
>> > > > > > > > > atmosphere of
>> awareness where
>> > > the
>> > > > > public can
>> > > > > > > > appreciate
>> > > > > > > > > their art and not
>> tear it
>> > > apart? I
>> > > > > don't
>> > > > > > find
>> >> > > > > a
>> > > > > > > > third
>> > > > > > > > > alternative.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Yousuf
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > --- On Sat,
>> 8/30/08, Rahul
>> > > Asthana
>> > > > > > > > >
>> <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > From: Rahul
>> Asthana
>> > > > > > > <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
>> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re:
>> > > [Reader-list]
>> > > > Ways of
>> > > > > Life
>> > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > Transgressions
>> > > > > > > > > > To:
>> ysaeed7 at yahoo.com,
>> > > > > > "Shuddhabrata
>> > > > > > > > > Sengupta"
>> > > > > <shuddha at sarai.net>
>> > > > > > > > > > Cc:
>> "Sarai
>> > > list"
>> > > > > > > > >
>> <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> > > > > > > > > > Date:
>> Saturday, August
>> > > 30,
>> > > > 2008,
>> > > > > 8:42
>> > > > > > PM
>> > > > > > > > > > Dear Yousuf,
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > I think the
>> classic
>> > > liberal
>> > > > stand
>> > > > > of
>> > > > > > > reductionist
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> extrapolation,in which
>> > > one
>> > > > > develops
>> > > > > > certain
>> > > > > > > set
>> > > > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > > canonical
>> > > > > > > > > > principles and
>> expects
>> > > them
>> > > > to
>> > > > > govern
>> > > > > > all
>> > > > > > > > discourse on
>> > > > > > > > > a
>> > > > > > > > > > certain topic,
>> is not
>> > > > necessarily
>> > > > > > > philosophically
>> > > > > > > > > incorrect
>> > > > > > > > > > from their
>> point of
>> > > view,but
>> > > > > > insufficient
>> > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > improper
>> > > > > > > > > if we
>> > > > > > > > > > want to live
>> in a
>> > > tolerant
>> > > > liberal
>> > > > > > society.I
>> > > > > > > will
>> > > > > > > > try
>> > > > > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > > > elaborate:
>> > > > > > > > > > The point is
>> not that
>> > > Hussein
>> > > > as a
>> > > > > > Muslim
>> > > > > > > can
>> > > > > > > > paint
>> > > > > > > > > Hindu
>> > > > > > > > > > deities,nude
>> or
>> > > otherwise or
>> > > > > whether
>> > > > > > his
>> > > > > > > > intention was
>> > > > > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > > > insult,or
>> not.The point
>> > > is
>> > > > also
>> > > > > not
>> > > > > > that the
>> > > > > > > his
>> > > > > > > > > paintings
>> > > > > > > > > > can be
>> artistic and
>> > > break new
>> > > > > grounds
>> > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > expression
>> > > > > > > > > > etc.Neither is
>> it the
>> > > point
>> > > > that
>> > > > > he
>> > > > > > should
>> > > > > > > have
>> > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > freedom
>> > > > > > > > > > of expression
>> to paint
>> > > > whatever he
>> > > > > > wants.The
>> > > > > > > > point is
>> > > > > > > > > also
>> > > > > > > > > > not that the
>> people who
>> > > > attacked
>> > > > > him
>> > > > > > were
>> > > > > > > wrong.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > The point that
>> I have
>> > > been
>> > > > trying
>> > > > > to
>> > > > > > make is
>> > > > > > > that
>> > > > > > > > all
>> > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > above things
>> are
>> > > true;but
>> > > > still a
>> > > > > > painting
>> > > > > > > that
>> > > > > > > > he has
>> > > > > > > > > made
>> >> > > > > > > > can be
>> offensive to many
>> > > > > people.Now,the
>> > > > > > > classic
>> > > > > > > > > reductionist
>> > > > > > > > > > line here is
>> > > that,offense is
>> > > > > > > > subjective.Obviously,we
>> > > > > > > > > > can't be
>> bothered
>> > > about
>> > > > every
>> > > > > > person who
>> > > > > > > > takes
>> > > > > > > > > offense
>> > > > > > > > > > at any random
>> stuff, can
>> > > > we?To
>> > > > > that I
>> > > > > > would
>> > > > > > > say,
>> > > > > > > > using
>> > > > > > > > > our
>> > > > > > > > > > own personal
>> > > > judgment,depending
>> > > > > upon
>> > > > > > our
>> > > > > > > > interactions
>> > > > > > > > > with
>> > > > > > > > > > people, we can
>> make out
>> > > most
>> > > > of
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > times
>> > > > > > > if
>> > > > > > > > > something is
>> > > > > > > > > > truly
>> offensive to a
>> > > large
>> > > > group
>> > > > > of
>> > > > > > people
>> > > > > > > or
>> > > > > > > > not.If
>> > > > > > > > > we
>> > > > > > > > > > can't,we
>> should talk
>> > > to
>> > > > > > people.IMHO,I
>> > > > > > > > don't
>> > > > > > > > > think I
>> > > > > > > > > > should take
>> the easy way
>> > > out
>> > > > of
>> > > > > hiding
>> > > > > > > behind the
>> > > > > > > > > principles
>> > > > > > > > > > of freedom of
>> expression
>> > > and
>> > > > > visual
>> > > > > > > metaphors
>> > > > > > > > etc.We
>> > > > > > > > > should
>> > > > > > > > > > always support
>> freedom
>> > > of
>> > > > > > expression,but if
>> > > > > > > we
>> > > > > > > > can
>> > > > > > > > > surmise
>> > > > > > > > > > that a
>> particular act of
>> > > art
>> > > > was
>> > > > > > done,when
>> > > > > > > it was
>> > > > > > > > > probably
>> > > > > > > > > > apparent that
>> it would
>> > > hurt
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > > sensibilities of
>> > > > > > > > a
>> > > > > > > > > large
>> > > > > > > > > > group of
>> people,we
>> > > should
>> > > > call it
>> > > > > for
>> > > > > > > "bad
>> > > > > > > > > taste".
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > If we have
>> respect for
>> > > and
>> > > > engage
>> > > > > in
>> > > > > > dialog
>> > > > > > > with
>> > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > moderates of
>> groups we
>> > > may
>> > > > not
>> > > > > have to
>> > > > > > deal
>> > > > > > > with
>> > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > extremists.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > Dear Shuddha,
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > I think you
>> mentioned
>> > > earlier
>> > > > how
>> > > > > > religious
>> > > > > > > > people
>> > > > > > > > > offend
>> > > > > > > > > > the
>> sensitivities of
>> > > > > atheists.Could you
>> > > > > > > please
>> > > > > > > > > elaborate?
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > Thanks
>> > > > > > > > > > Rahul
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat,
>> 8/30/08,
>> > > > Shuddhabrata
>> > > > > > Sengupta
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > <shuddha at sarai.net>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > From:
>> Shuddhabrata
>> > > > Sengupta
>> > > > > > > > >
>> <shuddha at sarai.net>
>> > > > > > > > > > > Subject:
>> Re:
>> > > > [Reader-list]
>> > > > > Ways of
>> > > > > > Life
>> > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > > Transgressions
>> > > > > > > > > > > To:
>> > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com
>> > > > > > > > > > > Cc:
>> "Sarai
>> > > > list"
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> > > > > > > > > > > Date:
>> Saturday,
>> > > August
>> > > > 30,
>> > > > > 2008,
>> > > > > > 2:44
>> > > > > > > AM
>> > > > > > > > > > > Dear
>> Yousuf, dear
>> > > all,
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > thank you
>> very
>> > > much,
>> > > > Yousuf
>> > > > > for
>> > > > > > your
>> > > > > > > mail. I
>> > > > > > > > > really
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> appreciate your
>> > > > > > > > > > > point of
>> drawing
>> > > > attention to
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > > available
>> > > > > > > > > > vocabularies
>> of
>> > > > > > > > > > > visual
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> representation and
>> > > the
>> > > > way in
>> > > > > > which
>> > > > > > > they
>> > > > > > > > > determine or
>> > > > > > > > > > > influence
>> the
>> > > > > > > > > > > universe
>> of visual
>> > > > > > repsesentatiation,
>> > > > > > > if
>> > > > > > > > only to
>> > > > > > > > > > underline
>> > > > > > > > > > > the fact
>> > > > > > > > > > > that no
>> visual
>> > > artist is
>> > > > ever
>> > > > > > divorced
>> > > > > > > from
>> > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > context tat
>> > > > > > > > > > > they are
>> > > > > > > > > > > born
>> into.  I have
>> > > > nowhere
>> > > > > written
>> > > > > > > about why
>> > > > > > > > > Husain
>> > > > > > > > > > does
>> > > > > > > > > > > not
>> choose
>> > > > > > > > > > > to
>> represent themes
>> > > from
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > Islamic
>> > > > > > > canon,
>> > > > > > > > and I
>> > > > > > > > > > totally
>> > > > > > > > > > > agree
>> with
>> > > > > > > > > > > you that
>> he does
>> > > not do
>> > > > so
>> > > > > because
>> > > > > > they
>> > > > > > > are
>> > > > > > > > not
>> > > > > > > > > > available
>> > > > > > > > > > > to him in
>> > > > > > > > > > > his
>> cultural miieu,
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > As for
>> apparently
>> > > > > transgressive
>> > > > > > cases
>> > > > > > > like
>> > > > > > > > > Husain or
>> > > > > > > > > > Dillu
>> > > > > > > > > > > Ram
>> > > > > > > > > > > Kausari,
>> I cannnot
>> > > see
>> > > > why
>> > > > > they
>> > > > > > should
>> > > > > > > not b
>> > > > > > > > > > celebrated.
>> > > > > > > > > > > Hindus
>> > > > > > > > > > > should
>> honour
>> > > Husain and
>> > > > > Muslims
>> > > > > > should
>> > > > > > > > honour
>> > > > > > > > > Dillu
>> > > > > > > > > > Ram.
>> > > > > > > > > > > In this
>> way
>> > > > > > > > > > > they
>> would ensure
>> > > that
>> > > > acts
>> > > > > of
>> > > > > > > 'road
>> > > > > > > > > crossing'
>> > > > > > > > > > need
>> > > > > > > > > > > not
>> necessarily
>> > > > > > > > > > > end in
>> lethal
>> > > accidents,
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > warm
>> regards, and
>> > > hoping
>> > > > for
>> > > > > many
>> > > > > > more
>> > > > > > > road
>> > > > > > > > > crossings,
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > Shuddha
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > On
>> 29-Aug-08, at
>> > > 8:25
>> > > > PM,
>> > > > > Yousuf
>> > > > > > Saeed
>> > > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear
>> Shuddha,
>> > > > others
>> > > > > > > > > > > > I
>> really
>> > > appreciate
>> > > > your
>> > > > > > > highlighting
>> > > > > > > > of the
>> > > > > > > > > fact
>> > > > > > > > > > that
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> Hussain's
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> intention may
>> > > not
>> > > > be of
>> > > > > > insulting
>> > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > Hindus
>> > > > > > > > > by
>> > > > > > > > > > > drawing
>> the deities
>> > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > in
>> the nude or
>> > > > > otherwise. I
>> > > > > > am not
>> > > > > > > a
>> > > > > > > > > defender of
>> > > > > > > > > > > Hussain,
>> but would
>> > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > like
>> to put
>> > > across
>> > > > a few
>> > > > > > points.
>> > > > > > > Many
>> > > > > > > > people
>> > > > > > > > > (on
>> > > > > > > > > > this
>> > > > > > > > > > > list and
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> elsewhere)
>> > > have
>> > > > pointed
>> > > > > out
>> > > > > > that
>> > > > > > > > Hussain
>> > > > > > > > > never
>> > > > > > > > > > drew
>> > > > > > > > > > > any
>> Muslim
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> character
>> > > (such as
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > Prophet) in
>> > > > > > > this
>> > > > > > > > > manner,
>> > > > > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > > > therefore
>> his
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> intention must
>> > > be
>> > > > to
>> > > > > insult
>> > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > Hindus.
>> > > > > > > > They
>> > > > > > > > > also
>> > > > > > > > > > say
>> > > > > > > > > > > that such
>> an
>> > > > > > > > > > > > act
>> by any
>> > > artist
>> > > > in a
>> > > > > Muslim
>> > > > > > > country
>> > > > > > > > (like
>> > > > > > > > > Saudi
>> > > > > > > > > > > Arabia)
>> would
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> result in
>> > > death
>> > > > penalty,
>> > > > > and
>> > > > > > so
>> > > > > > > on. But
>> > > > > > > > > maybe
>> > > > > > > > > > Hussain
>> > > > > > > > > > > did not
>> draw
>> > > > > > > > > > > > an
>> Islamic
>> > > > character in
>> > > > > an
>> > > > > > > > >
>> "immodest"
>> > > > > > > > > > > posture
>> simply
>> > > because
>> > > > such
>> > > > > > > > > > > > an
>> image or
>> > > icon
>> > > > > doesn't
>> > > > > > exist
>> > > > > > > in the
>> > > > > > > > > > Islam's
>> > > > > > > > > > > visual
>> cultural
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> tradition. If
>> > > he
>> > > > does
>> > > > > it,
>> > > > > > then
>> > > > > > > that
>> > > > > > > > would be
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> deliberately
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> provocative
>> > > > (although I
>> > > > > am
>> > > > > > not
>> > > > > > > saying
>> > > > > > > > it
>> > > > > > > > > > shouldn't
>> > > > > > > > > > > be done).
>> But he
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> could draw a
>> > > Hindu
>> > > > deity
>> > > > > in
>> > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > nude
>> > > > > > > > because
>> > > > > > > > > such
>> > > > > > > > > > a
>> > > > > > > > > > > tradition
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> exists in our
>> > > > Indian
>> > > > > visual
>> > > > > > > culture. I
>> > > > > > > > doubt
>> > > > > > > > > if
>> > > > > > > > > > he
>> > > > > > > > > > > avoids
>> > > > > > > > > > > >  the
>> depiction
>> > > of
>> > > > Muslim
>> > > > > > themes
>> > > > > > > because
>> > > > > > > > he
>> > > > > > > > > is
>> > > > > > > > > > scared
>> > > > > > > > > > > of the
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> Islamists.
>> > > Maybe he
>> > > > > simply
>> > > > > > > can't
>> > > > > > > > relate
>> > > > > > > > > to it
>> > > > > > > > > > as
>> > > > > > > > > > > an
>> Indian.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > If I
>> as an
>> > > artist
>> > > > cannot
>> > > > > > express
>> > > > > > > my
>> > > > > > > > certain
>> > > > > > > > > > feelings
>> > > > > > > > > > > in the
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> language that
>> > > has
>> > > > been
>> > > > > taught
>> > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > be me
>> > > > > > > > by my
>> > > > > > > > > > parents,
>> > > > > > > > > > > and I
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> suddenly
>> > > discover a
>> > > > new
>> > > > > > language
>> > > > > > > that
>> > > > > > > > allows
>> > > > > > > > > me
>> > > > > > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > > > > express
>> that
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> peculiar
>> > > feeling in
>> > > > a
>> > > > > much
>> > > > > > better
>> > > > > > > way
>> > > > > > > > than
>> > > > > > > > > what
>> > > > > > > > > > my
>> > > > > > > > > > > mother
>> tongue
>> > > > > > > > > > > > did,
>> I would
>> > > be
>> > > > happy to
>> > > > > use
>> > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > new
>> > > > > > > > > language.
>> > > > > > > > > > There
>> > > > > > > > > > > are
>> thousands
>> > > > > > > > > > > > of
>> poets and
>> > > > artists who
>> > > > > > found a
>> > > > > > > new
>> > > > > > > > way of
>> > > > > > > > > > expression
>> > > > > > > > > > > in a
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> language which
>> > > > every one
>> > > > > in
>> > > > > > their
>> > > > > > > midst
>> > > > > > > > had
>> > > > > > > > > found
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > "inferior" –
>> > > > I am
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> talking for
>> > > example
>> > > > of
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > > tradition of
>> > > > > > > > > Persian
>> > > > > > > > > > poets
>> > > > > > > > > > > of South
>> Asia
>> > > > > > > > > > > > who
>> also wrote
>> > > > verses in
>> > > > > > Hindi or
>> > > > > > > > Hinduvi.
>> > > > > > > > > While
>> > > > > > > > > > poets
>> > > > > > > > > > > such as
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> Masud Sa'd
>> > > > Salman,
>> > > > > Amir
>> > > > > > > Khusrau,
>> > > > > > > > > Abdurrahim
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> Khane-khana,
>> > > Ghalib, or
>> > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> Iqbal became
>> > > famous
>> > > > for
>> > > > > their
>> > > > > > > exquisite
>> > > > > > > > > verse in
>> > > > > > > > > > > Persian,
>> their
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> heart pours
>> > > out
>> > > > better
>> > > > > in
>> > > > > > their
>> > > > > > > > Hinduvi,
>> > > > > > > > > Urdu or
>> > > > > > > > > > Braj
>> > > > > > > > > > > poetry
>> where
>> > > > > > > > > > > > they
>> can come
>> > > down
>> > > > to
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > earth
>> > > > > > > from
>> > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > lofty
>> > > > > > > > > > royal
>> > > > > > > > > > > palaces.
>> We
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> often say,
>> > > > "Unki
>> > > > > Hindi
>> > > > > > > shayeri
>> > > > > > > > mein
>> > > > > > > > > mitti ki
>> > > > > > > > > > > khushbu
>> aati
>> > > hai"
>> > > > (one
>> > > > > > > > > > > > can
>> smell the
>> > > earth
>> > > > in
>> > > > > their
>> > > > > > > vernacular
>> > > > > > > > > poetry).
>> > > > > > > > > > And I
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> think Hussain
>> > > is
>> > > > no
>> > > > > > different
>> > > > > > > from
>> > > > > > > > them. He
>> > > > > > > > > > cannot
>> > > > > > > > > > > draw an
>> Islamic
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> character in
>> > > the
>> > > > nude
>> > > > > because
>> > > > > > > it's
>> > > > > > > > > probably
>> > > > > > > > > > not in
>> > > > > > > > > > > his
>> palette, or
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> doesn't
>> > > touch
>> > > > his
>> > > > > heart.
>> > > > > > (And
>> > > > > > > we
>> > > > > > > > cannot
>> > > > > > > > > force
>> > > > > > > > > > him
>> > > > > > > > > > > to do it
>> to
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> become more
>> > > > politically
>> > > > > > correct).
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > You
>> may say
>> > > that a
>> > > > lot
>> > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > semi-pornographic
>> > > > > > > > > > scenes
>> > > > > > > > > > > have been
>> drawn
>> > > > > > > > > > > > in
>> Mughal or
>> > > > Persian
>> > > > > > miniatures,
>> > > > > > > and he
>> > > > > > > > > could
>> > > > > > > > > > have
>> > > > > > > > > > > followed
>> that.
>> > > > > > > > > > > > But
>> that's
>> > > not
>> > > > the
>> > > > > point.
>> > > > > > > Hindu
>> > > > > > > > deities
>> > > > > > > > > are
>> > > > > > > > > > > flexible
>> enough for
>> > > us
>> > > > > > > > > > > > to
>> turn them
>> > > around
>> > > > the
>> > > > > way
>> > > > > > we
>> > > > > > > wish, to
>> > > > > > > > > express a
>> > > > > > > > > > > certain
>> feeling
>> > > > > > > > > > > > that
>> cannot be
>> > > > expressed
>> > > > > any
>> > > > > > other
>> > > > > > > way.
>> > > > > > > > So
>> > > > > > > > > why
>> > > > > > > > > > not
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> appreciate and
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> celebrate that
>> > > > fact. (I
>> > > > > know
>> > > > > > such
>> > > > > > > a
>> > > > > > > > > statement
>> > > > > > > > > > from me
>> > > > > > > > > > > might
>> raise
>> > > > > > > > > > > > some
>> > > eyebrows). I
>> > > > maybe
>> > > > > a
>> > > > > > Muslim
>> > > > > > > but I
>> > > > > > > > > appreciate
>> > > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > > fact that
>> you
>> > > > > > > > > > > > can
>> literally
>> > > play
>> > > > with
>> > > > > many
>> > > > > > Hindu
>> > > > > > > > deities.
>> > > > > > > > > Just
>> > > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > > other day
>> I
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> heard Pandit
>> > > Jasraj
>> > > > sing
>> > > > > a
>> > > > > > khayal
>> > > > > > > in
>> > > > > > > > which
>> > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > lyrics
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> repeatedly
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> referred to
>> > > Krishna
>> > > > as a
>> > > > > chor
>> > > > > > > (thief).
>> > > > > > > > Does
>> > > > > > > > > that
>> > > > > > > > > > > insult a
>> Hindu? Or
>> > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> would it
>> > > insult a
>> > > > Hindu
>> > > > > if
>> > > > > > this
>> > > > > > > khayal
>> > > > > > > > was
>> > > > > > > > > sung
>> > > > > > > > > > by
>> > > > > > > > > > > Ustad
>> Amir Khan?
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> (Incidentally,
>> > > a
>> > > > large
>> > > > > number
>> > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > traditional
>> > > > > > > > > > Hindu
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> devotional
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> lyrics sung in
>> > > > classical
>> > > > > > music
>> > > > > > > have
>> > > > > > > > reached
>> > > > > > > > > us
>> > > > > > > > > > via
>> > > > > > > > > > > Muslim
>> gharana
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> musicians, and
>> > > much
>> > > > of
>> > > > > > devotional
>> > > > > > > Hindu
>> > > > > > > > > visual
>> > > > > > > > > > > mythology
>> has come
>> > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > to
>> us via
>> > > patwa
>> > > >artists
>> > > > > of
>> > > > > > Bengal
>> > > > > > > who
>> > > > > > > > are
>> > > > > > > > > > > >  all
>> Muslim.
>> > > Can
>> > > > > M.F.Hussain
>> > > > > > be
>> > > > > > > > detached
>> > > > > > > > > from
>> > > > > > > > > > that
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> continuity?)
>> > > > > > > > > > > > Much
>> of the
>> > > popular
>> > > > > calendar
>> > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > poster
>> > > > > > > > art
>> > > > > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > > > 20th
>> > > > > > > > > > > century
>> showing
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> Hindu deities
>> > > was
>> > > > drawn
>> > > > > by an
>> > > > > > > artist
>> > > > > > > > called
>> > > > > > > > > Hasan
>> > > > > > > > > > Raza
>> > > > > > > > > > > Raja of
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> Meerut. And
>> > > the
>> > > > manner
>> > > > > in
>> > > > > > which
>> > > > > > > most
>> > > > > > > > Hindu
>> > > > > > > > > > deities are
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> visualized
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> today comes
>> > > from
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > pioneering
>> > > > > > > work of
>> > > > > > > > Raja
>> > > > > > > > > Ravi
>> > > > > > > > > > > Varma who
>> was
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> clearly
>> > > inspired by
>> > > > > western
>> > > > > > style
>> > > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > art
>> > > > > > > > > where
>> > > > > > > > > > human
>> > > > > > > > > > > models
>> were
>> > > > > > > > > > > > used
>> to
>> > > visualize
>> > > > the
>> > > > > gods
>> > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > goddesses.
>> > > > > > > > > So,
>> > > > > > > > > > does all
>> > > > > > > > > > > this
>> insult
>> > > > > > > > > > > > the
>> Hindus?
>> > > And
>> > > > what is
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > >
>> "original"
>> > > > > > > > > > Hindu
>> > > > > > > > > > > way of
>> imagining
>> > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> deities any
>> > > way?
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > I
>> liked your
>> > > > quoting
>> > > > > from
>> > > > > > Kausari
>> > > > > > > who
>> > > > > > > > is
>> > > > > > > > > among
>> > > > > > > > > > many
>> > > > > > > > > > > Hindu
>> poets who
>> > > > > > > > > > > > have
>> > > > written/announced
>> > > > > their
>> > > > > > > emotive
>> > > > > > > > > affiliation
>> > > > > > > > > > with
>> > > > > > > > > > > Prophet
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> Mohammad in
>> > > the
>> > > > same way
>> > > > > as
>> > > > > > say
>> > > > > > > with
>> > > > > > > > > Krishna. I
>> > > > > > > > > > doubt
>> > > > > > > > > > > if such
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> actions in the
>> > > past
>> > > > may
>> > > > > have
>> > > > > > met
>> > > > > > > with
>> > > > > > > > much
>> > > > > > > > > > resistance
>> > > > > > > > > > > (as you
>> have
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> mentioned) –
>> > > such
>> > > > > examples
>> > > > > > were
>> > > > > > > a
>> > > > > > > > norm.
>> > > > > > > > > There
>> > > > > > > > > > are
>> > > > > > > > > > > many
>> Hindu poets
>> > > > > > > > > > > > who
>> have
>> > > written
>> > > > > marsiyas
>> > > > > > full of
>> > > > > > > > pathos for
>> > > > > > > > > Imam
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> Hussain's
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> martyrdom, and
>> > > many
>> > > > > Muslim
>> > > > > > poets
>> > > > > > > who
>> > > > > > > > > composed
>> > > > > > > > > > adorable
>> > > > > > > > > > > songs for
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> Krishna. I
>> > > > don't
>> > > > > think it
>> > > > > > was
>> > > > > > > too
>> > > > > > > > hard
>> > > > > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > > > cross
>> > > > > > > > > > > the road
>> in those
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> days. So, why
>> > > are
>> > > > we
>> > > > > busy
>> > > > > > throwing
>> > > > > > > > stones
>> > > > > > > > > onto
>> > > > > > > > > > each
>> > > > > > > > > > > other
>> from the
>> > > > > > > > > > > > two
>> sides of a
>> > > > road? I
>> > > > > could
>> > > > > > > imagine
>> > > > > > > > that at
>> > > > > > > > > > least an
>> > > > > > > > > > > online
>> forum
>> > > > > > > > > > > > like
>> Sarai
>> > > could
>> > > > act
>> > > > > like a
>> > > > > > subway
>> > > > > > > or a
>> > > > > > > > > walk-over
>> > > > > > > > > > > bridge to
>> cross
>> > > > > > > > > > > > the
>> busy
>> > > highway.
>> > > > But
>> > > > > > currently it
>> > > > > > > > seems
>> > > > > > > > > more
>> > > > > > > > > > like a
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> road-block.
>> > > > > > > > > > > > And
>> we are all
>> > > > paying
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > toll.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> Yousuf
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > ---
>> On Fri,
>> > > > 8/29/08,
>> > > > > > Shuddhabrata
>> > > > > > > > Sengupta
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > <shuddha at sarai.net>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> From:
>> > > > Shuddhabrata
>> > > > > > Sengupta
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > <shuddha at sarai.net>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Subject:
>> > > > > [Reader-list]
>> > > > > > Ways of
>> > > > > > > Life
>> > > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> Transgressions
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> To:
>> > > "Sarai
>> > > > > > list"
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Date:
>> > > Friday,
>> > > > August
>> > > > > 29,
>> > > > > > 2008,
>> > > > > > > 1:31
>> > > > > > > > PM
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Dear All,
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> I have
>> > > been
>> > > > > intrigued by
>> > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > exchange on
>> > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > list
>> > > > > > > > > > > of late
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> that has
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> preferred
>> > > to
>> > > > > jettison the
>> > > > > > term
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> 'religion'
>> > > > > > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> prefer in
>> > > its
>> > > > stead
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > euphimistic
>> > > > phrase -
>> > > > > > 'ways
>> > > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > > life'.
>> > > > > > > > > > I am
>> > > > > > > > > > > referring
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> to the
>> > > exchange
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> between
>> > > > Chanchal
>> > > > > Malviya
>> > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > Jeebesh
>> > > > > > > > > Bagchi,
>> > > > > > > > > > > arising
>> out of
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> the
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> heated
>> > > > > correspondence on
>> > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > disruption
>> > > > > > > > > of a
>> > > > > > > > > > small
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> exhibition
>> > > > devoted
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> to
>> > > M.F.Husain.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> i am quite
>> > > > convinced
>> > > > > that
>> > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > term
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> 'religion'
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> which
>> > > derives
>> > > > from
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> latin root
>> > > of
>> > > > the
>> > > > > word
>> > > > > > religio
>> > > > > > > > (bond)
>> > > > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > > religare
>> > > > > > > > > > > (the
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> verb form
>> > > of
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> 'to
>> > > > bind')
>> > > > > > remains for
>> > > > > > > me a
>> > > > > > > > > useful
>> > > > > > > > > > word to
>> > > > > > > > > > > name the
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> act of
>> > > > committing
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> oneself in
>> > > any
>> > > > form.
>> > > > > In
>> > > > > > this
>> > > > > > > sense,
>> > > > > > > > > atheists
>> > > > > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > > > agnostics
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> are just
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> as
>> > > religious
>> > > > (in
>> > > > > their
>> > > > > > > commitment
>> > > > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > > doubt)
>> > > > > > > > > > as are
>> > > > > > > > > > > those
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> blessed
>> > > with
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> faith. I
>> > > would
>> > > > > describe
>> > > > > > my
>> > > > > > > > religious
>> > > > > > > > > > commitment as
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > agnosticism - a
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> commitment
>> > > to
>> > > > doubt
>> > > > > > > everything,
>> > > > > > > > > (including
>> > > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > > value of
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> doubt) and
>> > > a
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> certainty
>> > > that
>> > > > we
>> > > > > cannot
>> > > > > > speak
>> > > > > > > > certainly
>> > > > > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > > > > anything
>> at
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> all,
>> > > because
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> there are
>> > > > always
>> > > > > > > counterfactuals,
>> > > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > > hitherto
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> unimagined,
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> or unknown
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > possibilities,
>> > > > that
>> > > > > goad
>> > > > > > us on
>> > > >> > > to
>> > > > > > > > yet
>> > > > > > > > > newer
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> possibilities,
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> or to
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> return to
>> > > some
>> > > > very
>> > > > > old
>> > > > > > ones.
>> > > > > > > This
>> > > > > > > > is
>> > > > > > > > > just to
>> > > > > > > > > > say
>> > > > > > > > > > > that it
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> would be a
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> mistake to
>> > > > assume,
>> > > > > as is
>> > > > > > often
>> > > > > > > done
>> > > > > > > > with
>> > > > > > > > > some
>> > > > > > > > > > > arrogance
>> on
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> the part
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> of the
>> > > more
>> > > > > pronouncedly
>> > > > > > > > > 'faithful',
>> > > > > > > > > > that
>> > > > > > > > > > > atheists
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> and
>> > > agnostics
>> > > > have
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> no
>> > > > > 'spiritual'
>> > > > > > quests.
>> > > > > > > They
>> > > > > > > > do,
>> > > > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > > they
>> > > > > > > > > > > dont,
>> just
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> as those
>> > > who
>> > > > are
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > ostentatiously
>> > > > > > > 'religious'
>> > > > > > > > do,
>> > > > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > > dont,
>> > > > > > > > > > > or do
>> only
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> in as much
>> > > as
>> > > > it
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> allows
>> > > them to
>> > > > burn
>> > > > > a few
>> > > > > > > churches
>> > > > > > > > as
>> > > > > > > > > they go
>> > > > > > > > > > > questing.
>> If
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Hindu
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > fundamentalists
>> > > > have
>> > > > > > chosen to
>> > > > > > > > renounce
>> > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > ties
>> > > > > > > > > > > that bind
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> (religio)
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> them to
>> > > life,
>> > > > who
>> > > > > would I
>> > > > > > be
>> > > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > object,
>> > > > > > > > > > because, I
>> > > > > > > > > > > am not a
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Hindu.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> But I have
>> > > no
>> > > > > quarrel
>> > > > > > with the
>> > > > > > > term
>> > > > > > > > > 'ways
>> > > > > > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> life'.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> The more
>> > > words
>> > > > we
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> have, the
>> > > > better.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> This
>> > > discussion
>> > > > > arose out
>> > > > > > of a
>> > > > > > > rage
>> > > > > > > > felt
>> > > > > > > > > by
>> > > > > > > > > > some
>> > > > > > > > > > > that a
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> group of
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> zealots
>> > > had
>> > > > broken
>> > > > > and
>> > > > > > > disrupted an
>> > > > > > > > > > exhibition
>> > > > > > > > > > > that
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> featured
>> > > some
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> images of
>> > > and
>> > > > by
>> > > > > Husain,
>> > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > counter
>> > > > > > > > > rage
>> > > > > > > > > > felt
>> > > > > > > > > > > by
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> others
>> > > that the
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> zealots
>> > > had no
>> > > > right
>> > > > > to
>> > > > > > be
>> > > > > > > > criticised
>> > > > > > > > > because
>> > > > > > > > > > they
>> > > > > > > > > > > were
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> acting to
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> protect
>> > > the
>> > > > honour
>> > > > > of the
>> > > > > > > Hindu
>> > > > > > > > deities
>> > > > > > > > > that
>> > > > > > > > > > they
>> > > > > > > > > > > felt
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Husain had
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> insulted.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> The second
>> > > case
>> > > > is
>> > > > > as
>> > > > > > follows
>> > > > > > > -
>> > > > > > > > what
>> > > > > > > > > right
>> > > > > > > > > > has
>> > > > > > > > > > > Husain, a
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Muslim to
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> insult
>> > > Hindu
>> > > > deities
>> > > > > by
>> > > > > > > portraying
>> > > > > > > > them
>> > > > > > > > > in a
>> > > > > > > > > > > manner
>> that is
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> offensive
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> to the
>> > > > sentiments of
>> > > > > many
>> > > > > > > Hindus.
>> > > > > > > > > > (Husain's
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > motivations, or
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> aesthetic
>> > > merit
>> > > > of
>> > > > > his
>> > > > > > images
>> > > > > > > are
>> > > > > > > > not
>> > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > issue
>> > > > > > > > > > > here,
>> what
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> is at
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> issue is
>> > > the
>> > > > insult
>> > > > > seen
>> > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > have
>> > > > > > > > > occurred
>> > > > > > > > > > when a
>> > > > > > > > > > > non-Hindu
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > 'touches'
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> a sacred
>> > > Hindu
>> > > > icon
>> > > > > with
>> > > > > > his
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> 'insulting'
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > imagination.
>> > > > Those
>> > > > > so
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> enraged,
>> > > also
>> > > > throw
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > > following
>> > > > > > > > > challenge,
>> > > > > > > > > > has
>> > > > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> opposite
>> > > ever
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> occurred?
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> I am not
>> > > here
>> > > > to
>> > > > > make a
>> > > > > > case
>> > > > > > > for
>> > > > > > > > Husain.
>> > > > > > > > > (As
>> > > > > > > > > > I
>> > > > > >> > > > > have said
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> before I
>> > > do
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> not have a
>> > > very
>> > > > high
>> > > > > > opinion
>> > > > > > > of his
>> > > > > > > > work
>> > > > > > > > > as
>> > > > > > > > > > an
>> > > > > > > > > > > artist).
>> I
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> am here to
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> make a
>> > > case for
>> > > > what
>> > > > > is
>> > > > > > > considered
>> > > > > > > > to be
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> transgression. No
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> one can be
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> sure when
>> > > they
>> > > > have
>> > > > > > > transgressed.
>> > > > > > > > > Because
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> transgression can
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> be seen
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> to occur
>> > > even
>> > > > when
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > motives
>> > > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > person
>> > > > > > > > > > > concerned
>> are
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> far from
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > transgression.
>> > > > > Husain can
>> > > > > > say
>> > > > > > > in
>> > > > > > > > his
>> > > > > > > > > defence,
>> > > > > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > > > indeed
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> has on
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> occasion
>> > > said
>> > > > that
>> > > > > his
>> > > > > > > paintings
>> > > > > > > > are an
>> > > > > > > > > index
>> > > > > > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > > > > his
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > appreciation of
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Indic
>> > > culture
>> > > > and
>> > > > > its
>> > > > > > > diversity of
>> > > > > > > > > > expressions,
>> of
>> > > > > > > > > > > his
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> closeness
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> (since
>> > > early
>> > > > > childhood)
>> > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > forms of
>> > > > > > > > > iconic
>> > > > > > > > > > imagery
>> > > > > > > > > > > in
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> popular
>> > > > Hinduism.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Here his
>> > > intent
>> > > > is
>> > > > > > clearly not
>> > > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > > insult, on
>> > > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > > contrary,
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> it is to
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> declare
>> > > his
>> > > > > appreciation
>> > > > > > for
>> > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > beauty
>> > > > > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> iconography
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> of popular
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Hinduism,
>> > > a
>> > > > charge
>> > > > > for
>> > > > > > which
>> > > > > > > he
>> > > > > > > > would be
>> > > > > > > > > > equally
>> > > > > > > > > > > hated by
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> both Hindu
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> as well as
>> > > > Muslim
>> > > > > > > fundamentalists.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> It has not
>> > > been
>> > > > > noticed
>> > > > > > that
>> > > > > > > no
>> > > > > > > > Muslim
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> fundamentalist or
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> even
>> > > Muslim
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> religious
>> > > > figure has
>> > > > > come
>> > > > > > out
>> > > > > > > in
>> > > > > > > > defence
>> > > > > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > > > > Husain.
>> They
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> are in
>> > > fact
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> in tacit
>> > > > agreement
>> > > > > with
>> > > > > > their
>> > > > > > > Hindu
>> > > > > > > > > peers. A
>> > > > > > > > > > > Muslim
>> making
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> images,
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> and that
>> > > too of
>> > > > > Hindu
>> > > > > > > goddesses,
>> > > > > > > > because
>> > > > > > > > > he
>> > > > > > > > > > is
>> > > > > > > > > > > drawn to
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> them, can
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> only be
>> > > seen as
>> > > > > blasphemy
>> > > > > > in
>> > > > > > > their
>> > > > > > > > eyes.
>> > > > > > > > > On
>> > > > > > > > > > this,
>> > > > > > > > > > > like on
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> so many
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> other
>> > > issues,
>> > > > Hindu
>> > > > > and
>> > > > > > Muslim
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> fundamentalists are
>> > > > > > > > > > > in total
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> agreement.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Let me
>> > > come now
>> > > > to
>> > > > > an
>> > > > > > > interesting
>> > > > > > > > > > counterfactual
>> > > > > > > > > > > argument.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> I refer to
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> the life
>> > > an
>> > > > work of
>> > > > > a
>> > > > > > little
>> > > > > > > known
>> > > > > > > > late
>> > > > > > > > > > nineteenth
>> > > > > > > > > > > century
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> and early
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> twentieth
>> > > > century
>> > > > > Urdu
>> > > > > > poet of
>> > > > > > > > Delhi
>> > > > > > > > > called
>> > > > > > > > > > Dillu
>> > > > > > > > > > > Ram
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Kausari.
>> > > Now as
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> his name
>> > > > suggests,
>> > > > > Dillu
>> > > > > > Ram
>> > > > > > > was a
>> > > > > > > > > Hindu. The
>> > > > > > > > > > > trouble
>> is,
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> throughout
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> his life
>> > > he
>> > > > composed
>> > > > > > > deliriously
>> > > > > > > > > passionate
>> > > > > > > > > > > elegies
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > (na'at)  to
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Prophet
>> > > > Muhammad.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> One of his
>> > > > quatrains
>> > > > > went
>> > > > > > as
>> > > > > > > > follows
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Kuch
>> > > 'ishq e
>> > > > > Muhammad
>> > > > > > mein
>> > > > > > > nahin
>> > > > > > > > shart
>> > > > > > > > > e
>> > > > > > > > > > > Musulman!
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Hai
>> > > Kausari
>> > > > Hindu
>> > > > > bhii
>> > > > > > > talabgaar e
>> > > > > > > > > Muhammad!
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Allah re!
>> > > kyaa
>> > > > > raunaq e
>> > > > > > bazaar
>> > > > > > > e
>> > > > > > > > > Muhammad
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Ke
>> > > Ma'bood e
>> > > > Jahan
>> > > > > bhi
>> > > > > > hai
>> > > > > > > > kharidaar e
>> > > > > > > > > > Muhammad!
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Being a
>> > > Muslim
>> > > > is
>> > > > > not a
>> > > > > > > condition
>> > > > > > > >for
>> > > > > > > > > loving
>> > > > > > > > > > > Muhammad!
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Kausari,
>> > > the
>> > > > Hindu,
>> > > > > is
>> > > > > > also a
>> > > > > > > > seeker of
>> > > > > > > > > > Muhammad!
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> By Allah!
>> > > How
>> > > > > delightful
>> > > > > > is
>> > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > bazaar
>> > > > >> > > > of
>> > > > > > > > > > Muhammad
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> For the
>> > > Lord of
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > Worlds is
>> > > > > > > also
>> > > > > > > > a
>> > > > > > > > > buyer of
>> > > > > > > > > > > Muhammad!
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> This kind
>> > > of
>> > > > > sentiment
>> > > > > > shocked
>> > > > > > > both
>> > > > > > > > > Hindus
>> > > > > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > > > Muslims.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Hindus,
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> because
>> > > how
>> > > > could a
>> > > > > Hindu
>> > > > > > sing
>> > > > > > > what
>> > > > > > > > > amounted
>> > > > > > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > > > > love
>> songs
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> to a
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Muslim
>> > > prophet,
>> > > > and
>> > > > > > Muslims,
>> > > > > > > for
>> > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > same
>> > > > > > > > > > reason.
>> > > > > > > > > > > Both felt
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> slighted
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> and
>> > > insulted by
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > > transgressive
>> > > > > > > > way in
>> > > > > > > > > > which the
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > imagination of
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> poet had
>> > > > > > 'touched' the
>> > > > > > > body
>> > > > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > > what
>> > > > > > > > > > was
>> > > > > > > > > > > sacred
>> for
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> one, and
>> > > not,
>> > > > for
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> the other.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Another
>> > > poem,
>> > > > which
>> > > > > > proved to
>> > > > > > > be
>> > > > > > > > even
>> > > > > > > > > more
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> controversial,
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> went like
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> this -
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > Rahmatulilalamin kay
>> > > > > > Hashar
>> > > > > > > mein
>> > > > > > > > > maana'
>> > > > > > > > > > khulay
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Khalq
>> > > saari
>> > > > Shaafa e
>> > > > > Roz
>> > > > > > e
>> > > > > > > Jaza kay
>> > > > > > > > > saath hai
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Laykay
>> > > Dillu
>> > > > Raam ko
>> > > > > > jannat
>> > > > > > > mein
>> > > > > > > > jab
>> > > > > > > > > Hazrat
>> > > > > > > > > > gaye
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Ma'loom
>> > > huwa
>> > > > kay
>> > > > > Hindu
>> > > > > > bhi
>> > > > > > > > Mahboob e
>> > > > > > > > > Khuda
>> > > > > > > > > > kay
>> > > > > > > > > > > saath
>> hai!
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> The
>> > > meaning of
>> > > > > "Mercy
>> > > > > > unto
>> > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > Worlds"
>> > > > > > > > > > became
>> > > > > > > > > > > apparent
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> on
>> > > Judgement
>> > > > Day:
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> The whole
>> > > > creation
>> > > > > is
>> > > > > > with the
>> > > > > > > > > Intercessor of
>> > > >> > > > > > The
>> > > > > > > > > > > Day of
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Acquittal
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> When the
>> > > > Prophet
>> > > > > took
>> > > > > > Dillu
>> > > > > > > Ram
>> > > > > > > > with him
>> > > > > > > > > into
>> > > > > > > > > > > Paradise
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> It was
>> > > known
>> > > > that
>> > > > > this
>> > > > > > Hindu
>> > > > > > > too is
>> > > > > > > > with
>> > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > > Beloved
>> of
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> God!
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> This poem,
>> > > > > especially
>> > > > > > > scandalized
>> > > > > > > > Muslim
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> orthodoxy, because
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> it dared
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> to suggest
>> > > that
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > prophet
>> > > > > > > himself
>> > > > > > > > > would
>> > > > > > > > > > > intercede
>> on
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> behalf of
>> > > an
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> unbeliever
>> > > on
>> > > > the
>> > > > > day of
>> > > > > > > judgement.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> It is
>> > > > interesting to
>> > > > > note
>> > > > > > that
>> > > > > > > > Dillu Ram
>> > > > > > > > > > never
>> > > > > > > > > > > became a
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Muslim, at
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> least not
>> > > in
>> > > > his
>> > > > > > lifetime. An
>> > > > > > > > article in
>> > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> interesting
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> web portal
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Chowk
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > http://www.chowk.com/articles/12692 by
>> > > > > > > > > > one
>> > > > > > > > > > > Asif
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Naqshbandi
>> > > says
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> "It
>> > > is
>> > > > also
>> > > > > said
>> > > > > > that
>> > > > > > > Dillu
>> > > > > > > > Ram,
>> > > > > > > > > > delirious
>> > > > > > > > > > > with his
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> love,
>> > > would
>> > > > > > > > > >> >>
>> sometimes
>> > > stand
>> > > > in
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > middle
>> > > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > bazaar
>> > > > > > > > > > in
>> > > > > > > > > > > Delhi,
>> put
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> chains
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> around his
>> > > neck
>> > > > and
>> > > > > feet
>> > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > shout
>> > > > > > > > at
>> > > > > > > > > the top
>> > > > > > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > > > > his voice
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> to all
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > passers-by,
>> > > > > "Muhammad!
>> > > > > > > Muhammad!
>> > > > > > > > > Muhammad!
>> > > > > > > > > > Yes!
>> > > > > > > > > > > Muhammad
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> is the
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Beloved of
>> > > God!
>> > > > > Muhammad
>> > > > > > is
>> > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > first
>> > > > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > > only
>> > > > > > > > > > > Beloved
>> of
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> God! If
>> > > God
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> loves you,
>> > > He
>> > > > loves
>> > > > > you
>> > > > > > > because of
>> > > > > > > > His
>> > > > > > > > > > Beloved!"
>> > > > > > > > > > > Some
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> people
>> > > even
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> stoned him
>> > > and
>> > > > he
>> > > > > would
>> > > > > > often
>> > > > > > > come
>> > > > > > > > home
>> > > > > > > > > > covered in
>> > > > > > > > > > > blood
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> but he was
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> totally
>> > > lost in
>> > > > his
>> > > > > love
>> > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > Prophet
>> > > > > > > > > > (peace and
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> blessings
>> > > be
>> > > > upon
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > him!)"
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> There is
>> > > an
>> > > > > apocryphal
>> > > > > > story
>> > > > > > > of how
>> > > > > > > > on
>> > > > > > > > > his
>> > > > > > > > > > > deathbed
>> Dillu
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Ram
>> > > Kausari
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> had a
>> > > vision of
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > Prophet
>> > > > > > > > himself, who
>> > > > > > > > > came
>> > > > > > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > > > > him, and
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> that he
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> read the
>> > > Kalima
>> > > > with
>> > > > > him.
>> > > > > > But
>> > > > > > > as
>> > > > > > > > this
>> > > > > > > > > vision
>> > > > > > > > > > is
>> > > > > > > > > > > reported
>> to
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> have
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> appeared
>> > > only
>> > > > to
>> > > > > him, as
>> > > > > > he
>> > > > > > > lay
>> > > > > > > > dying,
>> > > > > > > > > and as
>> > > > > > > > > > he
>> > > > > > > > > > > is no
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> longer
>> > > with us
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> to either
>> > > > confirm or
>> > > > > deny
>> > > > > > this
>> > > > > > > > deathbed
>> > > > > > > >> > >
>> conversion, we can
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> only
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> surmise
>> > > that it
>> > > > was
>> > > > > a
>> > > > > > > generous, but
>> > > > > > > > > somewhat
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> disingenuous
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> method of
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> having
>> > > Dillu
>> > > > > Ram's
>> > > > > > > somewhat
>> > > > > > > > > unorthodox
>> > > > > > > > > > Muslim
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> apologists
>> > > > claim him
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> for
>> > > themselves.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> As far as
>> > > we
>> > > > are
>> > > > > > concerned,
>> > > > > > > Dillu
>> > > > > > > > Ram
>> > > > > > > > > > Kausari,
>> > > > > > > > > > > caused
>> grave
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> offence,
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> by his
>> > > love for
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > Prophet,
>> > > > > > > both
>> > > > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > > Hindu as
>> > > > > > > > > > well
>> > > > > > > > > > > as to
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Muslim
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> zealots,
>> > > as
>> > > > long as
>> > > > > he
>> > > > > > lived.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> If, the
>> > > things
>> > > > we
>> > > > > call
>> > > > > > > religions
>> > > > > > > > are
>> > > > > > > > > > 'ways of
>> > > > > > > > > > > life'
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> then we
>> > > can
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> always
>> > > > determine for
>> > > > > > ourselves
>> > > > > > > > whether
>> > > > > > > > > we
>> > > > > > > > > > want to
>> > > > > > > > > > > walk on a
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> one way
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> street
>> > > that
>> > > > runs
>> > > > > into a
>> > > > > > dead
>> > > > > > > end,
>> > > > > > > > or to
>> > > > > > > > > cross
>> > > > > > > > > > many
>> > > > > > > > > > > paths,
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> walking
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> down one
>> > > way,
>> > > > for
>> > > > > one
>> > > > > > purpose,
>> > > > > > > down
>> > > > > > > > > another
>> > > > > > > > > > way
>> > > > > > > > > > > for
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> another,
>> > > and
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> sometimes
>> > > just
>> > > > > standing
>> > > > > > in
>> > > > > > > between
>> > > > > > > > > paths,
>> > > > > > > > > > figuring
>> > > > > > > > > > > out our
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> journey,
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> as we go
>> > > about
>> > > > our
>> > > > > lives.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> I find
>> > > cases
>> > > > like
>> > > > > Husain
>> > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > Dillu
>> > > > > > > > Ram
>> > > > > > > > > > Kausari
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> interesting
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> not
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> becauseof
>> > > what
>> > > > they
>> > > > > > paint of
>> > > > > > > what
>> > > > > > > > they
>> > > > > > > > > say,
>> > > > > > > > > > but
>> > > > > > > > > > > because
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> they seem
>> > > to
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> cause such
>> > > > prolonged
>> > > > > > traffic
>> > > > > > > jams
>> > > > > > > > on the
>> > > > > > > > > > 'ways
>> > > > > > > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> life'.
>> > > And
>> > > > all
>> > > > > they
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> were doing
>> > > was
>> > > > > crossing
>> > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > road.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> thanks and
>> > > > regards,
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Shuddha
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> -----
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > Shuddhabrata
>> > > > > Sengupta
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> _________________________________________
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > reader-list: an
>> > > > open
>> > > > > > > discussion
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>> > > > > > > > > media
>> > > > > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > > > the city.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> Critiques
>> > > &
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>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
>> To
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>> > > > > > > with
>> > > > > > > > > subscribe
>> > > > > > > > > > in
>> > > > > > > > > > > the
>> subject
>> > > > > > > > > > > >>
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>> To
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>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > _________________________________________
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> reader-list:
>> > > an
>> > > > open
>> > > > > > discussion
>> > > > > > > list on
>> > > > > > > > > media and
>> > > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > > city.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> Critiques
>> > > &
>> > > > > > Collaborations
>> > > > > > > > > > > > To
>> subscribe:
>> > > send
>> > > > an
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>> > > > > > to
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>> > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net
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>> subscribe in
>> > > the
>> > > > subject
>> > > > > > header.
>> > > > > > > > > > > > To
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>> > > > > > > > > > >
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>> > > > >
>> > >
>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> > > > > > > > > > > > List
>> archive:
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >
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>> > > > > > >
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>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> Shuddhabrata
>> > > Sengupta
>> > > > > > > > > > > The Sarai
>> Programme
>> > > at
>> > > > CSDS
>> > > > > > > > > > > Raqs
>> Media
>> > > Collective
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> shuddha at sarai.net
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> www.sarai.net
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > www.raqsmediacollective.net
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > _________________________________________
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> reader-list: an
>> > > open
>> > > > > discussion
>> > > > > > list on
>> > > > > > > > media and
>> > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > city.
>> > > > > > > > > > > Critiques
>> &
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>> > > > > > > > > > > To
>> subscribe: send
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>> >
>> > _________________________________________
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>> city.
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