[Reader-list] LTTE

Radhakrishnan krishnanrr at rediffmail.com
Wed Sep 17 17:23:59 IST 2008 

I just want to clarify that I am not holding the flag for the LTTE - which I have very clearly mentioned as a terrorist organisation with fascists streaks - it had eliminated moderate tamil groups and their leaders like Amritalingam in a cold blood.  I also had seen former Chief Minister Varadarajan Perumal in a very sorry situation some years ago.

LTTE is seen as a movement on ethnic lines vis a vis Sinhala state appratus. So can't brand it as a Christian or Hindu outfit.I am subject to correction.Kindly provide the necessary literature or substanciate the arguement.

Yes we are also witnessing regressive movements with the advent of globalisation like Islamic resurgence and Evangilical/Pentacosatal movement across the globe and Hindu communalism/Political Hindutva in India to be specific, which doesn't augur well for a secular and hetrogenous nation like us. As I had mentioned earlier that women, Dalits and other marginalized sections continue to bear the brunt of religious bigots.

so its high time to take strict action and also sek suitable amendments in the constitution to defend the lives and dignity of Dalits and women  by seeking abolition of polygamy, addressing the anomolies like rights of inheritance....Mahendra Singh Tikait had warned the government to desist from providing women the right to inherit agricultural land...there are many many examples..

Regards

Radhakrishnan


On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 radhikarajen at vsnl.net wrote :
>Kshemendra, do come to Tamilnadu, then you will see the havoc created by fuedal lords of other backward castes in this state.
>
>As to LTTE and its chief, please note that velupillai Prabhakaran is a christian, his son Anthony heading the "air force " of LTTE is christian, so would you say it is christian crusade. ?
>
>  By the way, in interior Tamilnadu, Karnataka one can find many individuals thanks to pentecostal missionaries, the individuals have names such as Monaharan  Das, Anthony suryadas, Sagayadas, etc, who go for sunday prayers at the prayer halls of pentecostal and also go to Muruga temple or mariamman temple. Sad issue is these are all neglected poor of the society in secular rule of the nation, fed only with slogans of garibi hatao.
>
>Regards.
>----- Original Message -----
> From: Radhakrishnan <krishnanrr at rediffmail.com>
>Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:56 pm
>Subject: Re: [Reader-list] LTTE
>To: reader-list at sarai.net
>
> > The LTTE is not an Indian Organisation, similarly SIMI is not an
> > arabian or pakistani organisation. The conflict is on ethno-
> > religious lines. So please don't drag LTTE-a fascist organisation
> > in scoring brownie points here in India. The context and causes
> > are qualitatively different in Srilanka.
> >
> > We have our own quota of Hindu,Muslim, Christian (NSCN,
> > pentacoatal) fundamentalism and groups of bigots in India so there
> > is no need to look outside.
> >
> > Radhakrishnan
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 reader-list-request at sarai.net wrote :
> > >Send reader-list mailing list submissions to
> > > 	reader-list at sarai.net
> > >
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> > > 	https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > >than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > >Today's Topics:
> > >
> > >    1. Re: after yesterday in Delhi (Kshmendra Kaul)
> > >    2. Re: Some Points from discussions (Jeebesh)
> > >    3. Re: Some Points from discussions (Vivek Narayanan)
> > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----
> > >
> > >Message: 1
> > >Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 04:37:34 -0700 (PDT)
> > > From: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Reader-list] after yesterday in Delhi
> > >To: Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com>
> > >Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> > >Message-ID: <555100.70334.qm at web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > >
> > >Dear Partha
> > >Â
> > >My questioning of the LTTE being called Hindu was to help me in
> > my discussions with my own self.
> > >Â
> > >I am still struggling in my mind over 'what is terror'; 'who is a
> > terrorist'; 'when should an organisation (or a system) be called
> > a terrorist one' and 'when should an act of terror, or a
> > terrorist, or a terrorist organisation be identified with an
> > ideology/religion/place/societal group'.
> > >Â
> > >There is total agreement with your words:
> > >Â
> > >"""""" The terrorist may belong to any religion or caste or place
> > or whatever - however, lumping all the people of that religion or
> > caste or place as terrorists because one or some people from that
> > group performed 'acts of terrorism' is not justifiable."""""""
> > >Â
> > >Kshmendra
> > >Â
> > >Â
> > >Â
> > >
> > >
> > >--- On Tue, 9/16/08, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Reader-list] after yesterday in Delhi
> > >To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com
> > >Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> > >Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 9:37 AM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Dear Kshmendra,
> > >
> > >
> > >Studied in Baroda / Vadodra and saw communal rights flare up on
> > the weirdest of reasons. Have seen a close friend who wouldn't
> > kill cockroaches try to burn a bus in the frenzy of a mob.
> > >
> > >
> > >As for defining the LTTE as Hindu - my point is different, and is
> > something I have mentioned earlier. The terrorist may belong to
> > any religion or caste or place or whatever - however, lumping all
> > the people of that religion or caste or place as terrorists
> > because one or some people from that group performed 'acts of
> > terrorism' is not justifiable.
> > >
> > >
> > >In short, am against the mass generalization wherein we identify
> > an entire group a 'terrorists'.
> > >
> > >
> > >To put it the other way around, am a Hindu, but do not identify
> > with the demolition of the Babri Masjid or the attacks on
> > Christians that is happening. Just a personal belief, but if any
> > person is converting to another faith for benefits accrued then
> > obviously his faith wasn't strong in the first place & s/he won't
> > be much of a loss.
> > >
> > >
> > >Rgds, Partha
> > >.......................................
> > >
> > >
> > >On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 7:17 PM, Kshmendra Kaul
> > <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >Dear Partha
> > >Â
> > >Do not mean to butt in.
> > >Â
> > >Just wondering whether any 'acts of terrorrising' by the LTTE
> > can be designated as 'acts of terrorising' by Hindus.
> > >Â
> > >Would it not be more apt to link 'acts of terror' with a
> > religious identity when such 'acts of terror' are carried out in
> > the name a particular religion or are solely based on the
> > religious identity?
> > >Â
> > >There are many instances of 'acts of terror by Hindus' which can
> > be so designated because they are carried out in the name of
> > Hinduism or are solely based upon and connected to the
> > Hindu identity of the perpetrators.
> > >Â
> > >Just wondering.
> > >Â
> > >Kshmendra
> > >
> > >
> > >--- On Sun, 9/14/08, Partha Dasgupta
> > <partha.dasgupta at eliteinfomachine.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Partha Dasgupta <partha.dasgupta at eliteinfomachine.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Reader-list] after yesterday in Delhi
> > >To: radhikarajen at vsnl.net
> > >Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> > >Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 4:28 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Dear Radhika Rajen,
> > >
> > >In may mails on this list you have pointed out how the elected
> > >representative is only a beneficiary divided caste votes and not
> > a true
> > >representative.
> > >
> > >Now you jump to another point altogether and talk about the UPA
> > chairperson>and the eloctorate.
> > >
> > >Please  stick to a viewpoint as it is hard to trace what your
> > viewpoint is.
> > >If you have changed your viewpoint, then please denote so.
> > >
> > >In any case, saw the killings (directly and first hand in Delhi)
> > during the
> > >Sikh militancy days and have seen communal riots in Baroda,
> > Gujarat; and all
> > >I can say is that when herd mentality takes over the common sense
> > is lost.
> > >
> > >Also, from Babri Masjid to the incapable idiots who got blown up
> > some time
> > >back, we have seen Hindu militancy.
> > >
> > >Either we can agree that militancy in all forms is wrong or we
> > can quibble
> > >about shades of right or wrong.
> > >
> > >So, where do you stand:
> > >
> > >a)   Militancy & armed conflict is wrong
> > >
> > >OR
> > >
> > >b)   Hindu's are allowed to have a conflict as they have been
> > repressed as
> > >a
> > >majority
> > >     and that cases like Godhra, Sikh killings in Delhi and
> > Babri Masjid
> > >are justified.
> > >
> > >Rgds, Partha
> > >
> > >PS: I do note that when you talk of terror, you never refer to
> > the LTTE
> > >(Hindu & Indian) which is considered as one of the most dangerous
> > terrorist>organisations and has killed a Prime Minister of India
> > (and is not Muslim or
> > >Christian) or the killing of Indira Gandi - or is it that since
> > they were
> > >not BJP/RSS that you do not consider them a loss?
> > >.....................................................
> > >
> > >On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 4:05 PM, <radhikarajen at vsnl.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Without getting in to blame games, the need of the moment is the
> > > > chairperson of UPA who is now proxy governor of the nation
> > should have
> > >good
> > > > introspection of the events and see if her Home Minister who
> > was once
> > > > speaker, but discarded by the electorate, got into rajya sabha by
> > >nomination
> > > >  and then is the Home minister, is he capable of any action.
> > A dummy like
> > > > Prime minister, again diitto to the governance who has no
> > incentive to
> > > > perform as Prime minister being discard beaucrat, has been
> >  of yester
> > >years,
> > > > can not make up his mind to take tough action for fear of
> > votebank getting
> > > > "hurt". By this inaction, in actual practise muslims are getting
> > >branded as
> > > > terrorists for the simple reason, they are not willing to be
> > ready to
> > > > identify, isolate and give up those who indulge in terror
> > activities. It
> > >is
> > > > sad scene indeed. Wheras the hindus do not want violence and
> > bhajrang dal
> > > > gets no sympathy for its acts of violence, muslims by floating
> > NGOs to
> > > > defend the accused are helping the ter
> > > > ror accused, sheltoring the accused for plain and simple lots
> > of money in
> > > > the trade of defending the terror.
> > > >
> > > > regards.
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Priya Sen <senpriya at gmail.com>
> > > > Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:18 pm
> > > > Subject: [Reader-list] after yesterday in Delhi
> > > > To: reader-list at sarai.net
> > > >
> > > > > Dear All,
> > > > >
> > > > > India Gate, September 13th, 6:20 or so in the evening. I had
> > > > > decided to walk
> > > > > from Triveni Academy towards Khan Market, determined to buy a
> > > > > bicycle and
> > > > > thinking, it's getting dark and maybe I should wait until Monday
> > > > > and I
> > > > > shouldn't tell my mother about my biking plans and even
> > though I
> > > > > plan to
> > > > > ride early mornings I need to ride it back home now and so
> > on and
> > > > > so forth.
> > > > > India Gate was as India Gate is on a weekend evening. Walking
> > > > > through it
> > > > > made me think of other times I had been there, a few specific
> > > > > memories and a
> > > > > general sense of being in Delhi - of familiarity and ease from
> > > > > having been
> > > > > here for as long as I have, and of curiousity, the kind that
> > comes> > > fromknowing that places are never the same - making
> > mental notes
> > > > > for no one
> > > > > really about the Kwality Walls ice cream cart that had a board
> > > > > saying 'Old
> > > > > Vendor, India Gate since 1956', and the astrologer who sits in
> > >the
> > > > > sameplace always, and people with video cameras filming the gate
> > > > > who always make
> > > > > me wonder at what they think  when they play it back later. It
> > > > > took 15
> > > > > minutes to cross over to Shah Jahan Road. Me, a couple of young
> > > > > men, and a
> > > > > papad seller who the policeman who was also waiting for the
> > lights to
> > > > > change, generally swore at, and I laughed at how swearing is so
> > > > > integral to
> > > > > ones day in Delhi.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Later I heard there were a couple of bombs that were
> > defused, one
> > > > > at Regal
> > > > > Cinema and one at India Gate. I realized how many stories there
> > > > > are now. Of
> > > > > yesterday. Of where we were when.. . Of places we know so
> > well. Of
> > > > > our lives
> > > > > up until the moment life changed for so many people in our city.
> > > > > Of the
> > > > > things that make our days what they are and will continue to.
> > > > > Everyone will
> > > > > have a story because everyone needs to claim something from
> > > > > moments like
> > > > > these. And everyone (in this city) must because this moment was
> > > > > about Delhi.
> > > > > It's happened before. Here, in other places, it will happen
> > again> > > and again
> > > > > and these will be 'the times according to people who live in
> > >these
> > > > > times'.And all we can really do is to embrace our lives a little
> > > > > harder.
> > > > >
> > > > > The last time I mourned for this city, a little like this,
> > is when
> > > > > I watched
> > > > > Nanglamachi being demolished and people gathering their
> > lives into
> > > > > bundlesand tempos and going wherever. The ruthlessness was
> > > > > overwhelming. Not to
> > > > > make analogies here. Although nothing wrong with analogies and
> > > > > other things
> > > > > that make us feel what we feel. No rules for that! Think, feel
> > > > > whatever -
> > > > > it's all part of the way we make sense of things on day 2.
> > It was
> > >like
> > > > > watching the news right after the blasts happened, when the
> > > > > reporters were
> > > > > as bewildered as everyone else. Somehow in their floundering
> > the news
> > > > > channels were credible for a moment. Before the information
> > > > > started coming
> > > > > in and before they started interpreting it, that is. We know
> > what> > > they do
> > > > > and do well. Nothing is surprising, just a bit defeating and
> > then> > > you think
> > > > > why. Maybe we're defeated by the way we think, are told to
> > think,> > > don'tthink. Maybe sometimes it has nothing to do with
> > how we
> > >live.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Delhi feels quiet today, but that's also from where I am. Also
> > > > > it's Sunday.
> > > > > It will probably not seem very different when I go out later
> > in the
> > > > > afternoon. But my sister called me this morning and was in tears
> > > > > and saying
> > > > > she couldn't sleep because of all this and is feeling restless
> > > > > because lakhs
> > > > > of people are going to be out on the streets today for Ganapati
> > > > > visarjan in
> > > > > Bombay. For her it's about Bombay as well, the place where she
> > >has
> > > > > her life.
> > > > > When public places become vulnerable it means having to make
> > > > > decisions about
> > > > > things one doesn't necessarily think about. It's about
> > >everything
> > > > > outside of
> > > > > us that is essential to how we construct our lives. It's about
> > > > > everydaydecisions, small things, immediate concerns. About being
> > > > > able to imagine,
> > > > > and dream and lose ourselves in places. For a few days we
> > will be
> > > > > excruciatingly aware of how we move around the city. There
> > will be
> > > > > remorseand anxiety and conversation. We will share a common
> > grief,> > > in degrees, and
> > > > > it will bring us together more intensely. We will count and
> > blame and
> > > > > speculate. And then we will thankfully, move on.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Right now though, I would rather not. Not for today. I just want
> > > > > to be with
> > > > > what this city means to me. Aside from its symbols, its creation
> > > > > of itself,
> > > > > its skewed power dynamics and unbearable inequalities. A friend
> > > > > and I are
> > > > > convinced that "Delhi steps in when we really need something
> > >to.".
> > > > > Like the
> > > > > wisdom of places. Not to get melodramatic! I'm glad I was here
> > > > > when this
> > > > > happened and not somewhere else.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Priya
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Priya Sen
> > > > > Sarai-CSDS
> > > > > 29, Rajpur Road, Civil Lines
> > > > > Delhi - 110054
> > > > > priya at sarai.net
> > > > > _________________________________________
> > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net
> > with> > > subscribe in the subject header.
> > > > > To unsubscribe:
> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-
> > > > > list
> > > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________
> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > > > subscribe in the subject header.
> > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-
> > list> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >Partha Dasgupta
> > >+919811047132
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________
> > >reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > >Critiques & Collaborations
> > >To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > subscribe in
> > >the subject header.
> > >To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > >List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________
> > >reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > >Critiques & Collaborations
> > >To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > subscribe in the subject header.
> > >To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > >List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >Partha Dasgupta
> > >+919811047132
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------
> > >
> > >Message: 2
> > >Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:44:50 +0530
> > > From: Jeebesh <jeebesh at sarai.net>
> > >Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Some Points from discussions
> > >To: Sarai Reader-list <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > >Message-ID: <A704E64D-B0CD-4A74-8433-6FB2AA91E0A0 at sarai.net>
> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed;
> > delsp=yes>
> > >Is it so difficult as you make it out to be?
> > >
> > >enclosed is the UN resolution in 1951. Surely many maps and documents
> > >about border was submitted. It can be ascertained and worked out.
> > >
> > >warmly
> > >jeebesh
> > >
> > >http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/kashun91.htm
> > >Resolution 91 (1951)
> > >Concerning the India-Pakistan question submitted by the
> > >Representatives of
> > >United Kingdom and United States and adopted by the Security
> > Council on
> > >March 30, 1951.
> > >(Document No. S/2017/Rev. 1, dated the 30th March, 1951).
> > >
> > >THE SECURITY COUNCIL,
> > >Having received and noted the report of Sir Owen Dixon, the United
> > >Nations Representative for
> > >India and Pakistan on his mission initiated by the Security Council
> > >resolution 80 (1950) of March
> > >14, 1950.
> > >
> > >Observing that the Governments of India and Pakistan have
> > accepted the
> > >provisions of the United
> > >Nations Commission for India and Pakistan resolutions of 13 August,
> > >1948, and 5 January, 1949,
> > >and have re-affirmed their desire that the future of the State of
> > >Jammu and Kashmir shall be decided
> > >through the democratic method of a free and impartial plebiscite
> > >conducted under the auspices of the
> > >United Nations.
> > >
> > >Observing that on 27 October, 1950, the General Council of the "All
> > >Jammu and Kashmir National
> > >Conference" adopted a resolution recommending the convening of a
> > >Constituent Assembly for the
> > >purpose of determining the "future shape and affiliations of the
> > State>of Jammu and Kashmir";
> > >observing further from statements of responsible authorities that
> > >action is proposed to convene such
> > >a Constituent Assembly and that the area from which such a
> > Constituent>Assembly would be elected
> > >is only a part of the whole territory of Jammu and Kashmir.
> > >
> > >Reminding the Governments and authorities concerned of the principle
> > >embodied in its resolutions 47
> > >(1948) of 21 April 1948, 51(1948) of 3 June, 1948 and 80 (1950)
> > of 14
> > >March, 1950 and the
> > >United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan resolutions of 13
> > >August, 1948, and 5 January,
> > >1949, that the final disposition of the State of Jammu and Kashmir
> > >will be made in accordance with
> > >the will of the people expressed through the democratic method of a
> > >free and impartial plebiscite
> > >conducted under the auspices of the United Nations.
> > >
> > >Affirming that the convening of a Constituent Assembly as recommended
> > >by the General Council of
> > >the "All Jammu and Kashmir National Conference" and any action that
> > >Assembly might attempt to
> > >take to determine the future shape and affiliation of the entire
> > State>or any part thereof would not
> > >constitute a disposition of the State in accordance with the above
> > >principle.
> > >
> > >Declaring its belief that it is the duty of the Security Council in
> > >carrying out its primary responsibility
> > >for the maintenance of international peace and security to aid the
> > >parties to reach an amicable
> > >solution of the Kashmir dispute and that a prompt settlement of this
> > >dispute is of vital importance to
> > >the maintenance of international peace and security.
> > >
> > >Observing from Sir Owen Dixon's report that the main points of
> > >difference preventing agreement
> > >between the parties were:
> > >
> > >(a) The procedure for and the extent of demilitarisation of the State
> > >preparatory to the holding
> > >of a plebiscite, and
> > >
> > >(b) The degree of control over the exercise of the functions of
> > >Government in the State
> > >necessary to ensure a free and fair plebiscite.
> > >
> > >(1) Accepts, in compliance with his request, Sir Owen Dixon's
> > >resignation and expresses its
> > >gratitude to Sir Owen Dixon's resignation and expresses its gratitude
> > >to Sir Owen for the great ability
> > >and devotion with which he carried out his mission;
> > >
> > >(2) Decides to appoint a United Nations Representative for India and
> > >Pakistan in succession to Sir
> > >Owen Dixon;
> > >
> > >(3) Instructs the United Nations Representative to proceed to the
> > sub-
> > >continent and, after
> > >consultation with the Governments of India and Pakistan, to
> > effect the
> > >demilitarisation of the State of
> > >Jammu and Kashmir on the basis of the United Nations Commission for
> > >India and Pakistan
> > >resolutions of 13 August, 1948, and, 5 January, 1949;
> > >
> > >(4) Calls upon the parties to co-operate with the United Nations
> > >Representative to the fullest degree
> > >in effecting the demilitarisation of the State of Jammu and Kashmir;
> > >
> > >(5) Instructs the United Nations Representatives to report to the
> > >Security Council within three
> > >months from the date of his arrival on the sub-continent; if at the
> > >time of this report, he has not
> > >effected demilitarisation in accordance with paragraph three
> > above, or
> > >obtained the agreement of the
> > >parties to a plan for effecting such demilitarisation, the United
> > >Nations Representative shall report to
> > >the Security Council those points of difference between the
> > parties in
> > >regard to the interpretation and
> > >execution of the agreed resolutions of 13 August, 1948, and 5
> > January,>1949, which he considers
> > >must be resolved to enable such demilitarisation to be carried out;
> > >
> > >(6) Calls upon the parties, in the event of their discussions
> > with the
> > >United Nations Representative
> > >failing in his opinion to result in full agreement, to accept
> > >arbitration upon all outstanding points of
> > >difference reported by the United Nations representative in
> > accordance>with paragraph five above.
> > >Such arbitration to be carried 'out by an arbitrator, or a panel of
> > >arbitrators, to be appointed by the
> > >President of the International Court of Justice after consultation
> > >with the parties;
> > >
> > >(7) Decides that the Military Observer Group shall continue to
> > >supervise the cease-fire in the State;
> > >
> > >(8) Requests the Governments of India and Pakistan to ensure that
> > >their cement regarding the
> > >cease-fire shall continue to be faithfully observed and calls
> > them to
> > >take all possible measures to
> > >ensure the creation and maintenance of an atmosphere favourable
> > to the
> > >promotion of further
> > >negotiations and to refrain from any likely to prejudice a just and
> > >peaceful settlement;
> > >
> > >(9) Requests the Secretary-General to provide the United Nations
> > >Representative for India and
> > >Pakistan with such services and facilities as may be necessary in
> > >carrying out the terms of this
> > >resolution.
> > >
> > >The Security Council voted on this Resolution on 30-3-51 with the
> > >following result:
> > >In favour: Brazil, China, Ecuador, France, Netherlands, Turkey, U.K.
> > >and U.S.A.
> > >Against: None
> > >Abstaining: India, U.S.S.R. and Yugoslavia.
> > >
> > >On 16-Sep-08, at 4:50 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dear Jeebesh
> > > >
> > > > You are overstepping yourself. We are still on Point 1 of  your
> > > > "possible ways" arising from your "some friends were talking about
> > > > different way of thinking about Kashmir."
> > > >
> > > > "Referendum" was not in the menu of "possible ways" you
> > floated. Let
> > > > us get back to your "Demilitarized Zone"
> > > >
> > > > You say that a "wide area" has to be De-militarized. That is a
> > > > meaningless generality. Specify that "wide area" if you can. You
> > > > will not be able to do it if you have not thought over the
> > "possible> > ways" you have floated. Do some thinking first.
> > > >
> > > > You suggest a "popular suffrage" to mark the "border". Over what
> > > > "area" do you propose that this "popular suffrage" will take
> > place?> > In that "area" who will participate?
> > > >
> > > > Obviously the "suffrage" cannot take place specifically in any
> > > > proposed "wide area" on "both sides of  the border" which you seek
> > > > to De-militarize because the very purpose of the "suffrage" is to
> > > > demarcate precisely that "wide area".
> > > >
> > > > Kshmendra
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- On Tue, 9/16/08, Jeebesh <jeebesh at sarai.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From: Jeebesh <jeebesh at sarai.net>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Some Points from discussions
> > > > To: "Sarai Reader-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > > Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 4:14 PM
> > > >
> > > > Another Floater :)
> > > >
> > > > For a serious referendum to happen a very wide area has to be
> > > > demilitarized on both side of the present border. There can be a
> > > > popular suffrage to mark the border and hopefully something better
> > > > than the present situation may emerge.
> > > >
> > > > But my floater was not so much about the real-politic of border
> > > > making. It was about thinking a side ways to get out of this
> > > > "bleeding" politics and use all the various available
> > international> > institutions and instruments to arrive at some
> > new arrangements.
> > > >
> > > > warmly
> > > > Jeebesh
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 16-Sep-08, at 3:38 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Dear Jeebesh
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> The "Demilitarized Zone" is your proposal and not mine. You
> > > > should
> > > >> be the one to specify its borders. Unless, as is more than likely
> > > >> and is apparent, you have done very little thinking over the idea
> > > >> you have floated.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Kshmendra
> > > >>
> > > >> --- On Tue, 9/16/08, Jeebesh <jeebesh at sarai.net> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> From: Jeebesh <jeebesh at sarai.net>
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Some Points from discussions
> > > >> To: "Sarai Reader-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > >> Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 1:15 PM
> > > >>
> > > >> On 15-Sep-08, at 11:33 PM, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> But I think a BD led UN peacekeeping force in Kashmir would
> > not fly.
> > > >>
> > > >> Why not? :) It will be South Asia in a complex entangle.
> > > >>
> > > >> And Kshmendra, borders are always a contested lines. You could
> > > >> suggest
> > > >> what it could be.
> > > >>
> > > >> _________________________________________
> > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > >> Critiques & Collaborations
> > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > > >> subscribe in
> > > >> the subject header.
> > > >> To unsubscribe:
> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________
> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > > > subscribe in
> > > > the subject header.
> > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-
> > list> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________
> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > > > subscribe in the subject header.
> > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-
> > list> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------
> > >
> > >Message: 3
> > >Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:21:19 +0530
> > > From: Vivek Narayanan <vivek at sarai.net>
> > >Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Some Points from discussions
> > >To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com, sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > >Message-ID: <48CFABC7.40008 at sarai.net>
> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed
> > >
> > >Kshemendra,
> > >
> > >I understand from your comments below that you think that any
> > possible>"post-national" solution to the question of Kashmir is
> > hogwash, dreamy,
> > >silly, unthinkable-- in the same way that the idea of a nation-state
> > >with a democratic polity was completely unthinkable a few hundred
> > years>ago?  After all, it is not the specifics of one plan or
> > another that you
> > >are objecting to, it is the very idea itself, correct?
> > >
> > >Fine-- but my question is, what is your solution?  Do you think
> > >violently assertive forcible Indian military occupation, objected
> > to by
> > >the majority of the Kashmiri population, with all kinds of ripple
> > >effects including (possibly) the steadily increasing militancy and
> > >radicalisation of the population, the increasing bitterness that
> > reduces>the chances of reconcilliation and peace day by day, and only
> > >increasingly so, should and can continue until kingdom come?  Or
> > do you
> > >have any other ideas and possibilities in mind?
> > >
> > >I ask this as an earnest question, out of curiousity, not as a
> > polemical>point.
> > >
> > >Vivek
> > >
> > >Kshmendra Kaul wrote:
> > > > Dear Jeebesh
> > > >
> > > > You are overstepping yourself. We are still on Point 1 of
> > your "possible ways" arising from your "some friends were talking
> > about different way of thinking about Kashmir."
> > > >
> > > > "Referendum" was not in the menu of "possible ways" you
> > floated. Let us get back to your "Demilitarized Zone"
> > > >
> > > > You say that a "wide area" has to be De-militarized. That is a
> > meaningless generality. Specify that "wide area" if you can. You
> > will not be able to do it if you have not thought over the
> > "possible ways" you have floated. Do some thinking first.
> > > >
> > > > You suggest a "popular suffrage" to mark the "border". Over
> > what "area" do you propose that this "popular suffrage" will take
> > place? In that "area" who will participate?
> > > >
> > > > Obviously the "suffrage" cannot take place specifically in any
> > proposed "wide area" on "both sides of  the border" which you seek
> > to De-militarize because the very purpose of the "suffrage" is to
> > demarcate precisely that "wide area".
> > > >
> > > > Kshmendra
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- On Tue, 9/16/08, Jeebesh <jeebesh at sarai.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From: Jeebesh <jeebesh at sarai.net>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Some Points from discussions
> > > > To: "Sarai Reader-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > > Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 4:14 PM
> > > >
> > > > Another Floater :)
> > > >
> > > > For a serious referendum to happen a very wide area has to be
> > > > demilitarized on both side of the present border. There can be a
> > > > popular suffrage to mark the border and hopefully something better
> > > > than the present situation may emerge.
> > > >
> > > > But my floater was not so much about the real-politic of border
> > > > making. It was about thinking a side ways to get out of this
> > > > "bleeding" politics and use all the various available
> > international> > institutions and instruments to arrive at some
> > new arrangements.
> > > >
> > > > warmly
> > > > Jeebesh
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 16-Sep-08, at 3:38 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Dear Jeebesh
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> The "Demilitarized Zone" is your proposal and not mine. You
> > > >>
> > > > should
> > > >
> > > >> be the one to specify its borders. Unless, as is more than likely
> > > >> and is apparent, you have done very little thinking over the idea
> > > >> you have floated.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Kshmendra
> > > >>
> > > >> --- On Tue, 9/16/08, Jeebesh <jeebesh at sarai.net> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> From: Jeebesh <jeebesh at sarai.net>
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Some Points from discussions
> > > >> To: "Sarai Reader-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > >> Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 1:15 PM
> > > >>
> > > >> On 15-Sep-08, at 11:33 PM, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> But I think a BD led UN peacekeeping force in Kashmir would
> > not fly.
> > > >>>
> > > >> Why not? :) It will be South Asia in a complex entangle.
> > > >>
> > > >> And Kshmendra, borders are always a contested lines. You
> > could suggest
> > > >> what it could be.
> > > >>
> > > >> _________________________________________
> > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > >> Critiques & Collaborations
> > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > > >> subscribe in
> > > >> the subject header.
> > > >> To unsubscribe:
> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________
> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net
> > with subscribe in
> > > > the subject header.
> > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-
> > list> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________
> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net
> > with subscribe in the subject header.
> > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-
> > list> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >reader-list mailing list
> > >reader-list at sarai.net
> > >https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > >
> > >
> > >End of reader-list Digest, Vol 62, Issue 90
> > >*******************************************
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > subscribe in the subject header.
> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-
> > list
> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>
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