[Reader-list] on sarai postings

Partha Dasgupta parthaekka at gmail.com
Sat Sep 27 11:34:15 IST 2008


Dear Pawan,

1.  Let's accept the fact that finding something 'provocative' is completely
     variable. If I'm angry, then virtually anything would be provocative,
     especially from someone I dislike in any case.

2.  We all classify other people - that's how anyone deals with people and
     circumstances - just as you've classified some as 'communist friends'

3.   I can appreciate the emotion you have on Kashmir, yet at the same time
      you often lack reason. On a recent debate on Article 370, was in the dark
      completely about what you were talking about till Aditya very
kindly forwarded
      the relevant information.

4.   This is a list where we share views and discuss them. Any one has the right
      to share what they feel backed with reason. I see reason in most
of Shudhha's
      mails (even on Kashmir) as he backs his arguments with facts.
      Do note: Am not saying that the mails of Aditya, Rashneek and
others do not
      have facts. Just pointing out that your passion usually wipes
out any facts / logic
      so that I do not understand where you are coming from.

5.   Just because someone is a communist or a Hindu or a Muslim or a Bengali
      or a Kashmiri or ... does not mean that they are devoid of
brains. All of us have
      our bias that tints what we see. It is, however, expected that
as thinking individuals
      we learn to see the facts and put them together in a sensible
manner. Obviously, we
      will all have our own slant.

This is not a critique, just an observation, and I trust you will take
this in the right sense.

Rgds, Partha
.....................................

On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Nazneen,
> Someone posted an article , "traitors without a trial". And it seems that
> you are also from the same group who classify people according to your
> own preferences.
>
> What may not be provocative to you , may be provocative to me. I have all
> the right to defend my thoughts and fight the disinformation [ according to
> me ].
>
> The problem is that when we write something you dont like it, and when
> someone like Shuddha writes, whose knowledge about Kashmir is as good as
> Ricky Pontings knowledge about cooking Sambar- Dosa, you do nothing but
> appreciate it.
>
> I appreciate the passion of Shuddha and Shivam, but for them it is beyond
> that. It is now lust for them.
>
> God Bless ! [ No puns to the communist friends ]
>
> Pawan
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 5:58 AM, Nazneen Anand Shamsi <
> nazoshmasi at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Radhakrishnan,
>>
>> Thank you for your mail. I take your point about what Shivam has also
>> pointed a number of times the ad hominem nature of arguments. But I
>> strongly
>> believe that recent critical writings on the reader-list owe a lot to the
>> provocations by Aditya Raj Kaul, Pawan Durrani, Radhikarajen and Rahul
>> Asthana. No one can ignore that. So first I want to reach out to them and
>> say thank you. Having said that, let me admit that there were times when I
>> felt very stressed reading some of those mails, for a simple reason, which
>> was, the manner in which they articulated their argument, often worked as a
>> red-herring, to what they were trying to articulate. This is not say that,
>> all other mails ever posted on the reader list, were not stressful or all
>> the mails written by our agent provocateurs were stress full. No that was
>> clearly not the case.
>>
>> I expect writings of a sharp critical nature to emerge from the
>> reader-list,
>> which, one cannot access otherwise anywhere else. And I hope that members
>> of
>> this community recognize that the only way we can achieve this is by
>> exercising restraint, clarifying arguments, getting to an argument itself
>> and tearing it apart. I would love to read more arguments favoring a strong
>> State, with a strong police force and a robust system of justice. I would
>> look forward to read more critical writings on Kashmir and more reasons put
>> forth that take a Shuddha's argument and breaks it asunder. I want to cheer
>> for the underdog. I want to be convinced that left is wrong. I want to
>> clear
>> my head and support our police.
>>
>> This is to all those who write on the reader-list from someone, who till
>> now
>> has only been reading. I value and cherish what you think, I am your
>> reader,
>> please persuade me to believe what you believe in but please, please don't
>> be disrespectful, please write with a little care and a lot of
>> consideration. For I sincerely and honsetly want to believe in you!
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Nazo
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 7:28 AM, Radhakrishnan <krishnanrr at rediffmail.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Dear Tapas and Nazneen,
>> > I thank both of you for responding to my mail. I just wanted some amount
>> of
>> > restraint, not necessarily a quintessential intellectual platform, but
>> there
>> > is a greater need to exercise restraint and adhere to the terms of the
>> > debate. There have been many instances wherein people have tried to put
>> > forward their personal prejudices, conveniently targeting individuals,
>> > groups and institutions. Its not our job to attribute motive to any
>> > individual's opinion rather one could contest anybody's finding. At the
>> same
>> > time the attempts to be the judge and the jury …all rolled into one
>> doesn't
>> > augur well. The recent case is the unwarranted and contemptuous opinion
>> > about Jamia, an educational institution that is headed by a dynamic
>> > intellectual Prof Hasan, whose very credentials are questioned and
>> > castigated.
>> >
>> > The recent exchanges on terrorism and communalism hasn't been substantial
>> > ratherwere a very generic and conventional exchange from the standpoint
>> of
>> > 'we' and 'other' with which we have been grappling with since so many
>> > decades.
>> >
>> > Hence there is need to as Nazneen had clearly mentioned about the need to
>> > "devise a strategy to counter this unwarranted abuse or mass mail. Sarai
>> > people to put in place a set of directives for formal public engagement."
>> >
>> > Sarai team has to clearly introspect about a protocol of engagement on
>> the
>> > reader-list from, so that there are exchanges, howsoever varied and even
>> > diametrically opposite views within a prism of civility and minimal
>> norms.
>> >
>> > I also have found many postings very illuminating and got to know about
>> the
>> > varied dimensions involved in those issues, the recent ones were Simran
>> and
>> > Radhikarajen's views on the terrorism, LTTE. But I have a fear that
>> crisis
>> > in some places or people who had been affected by a crisis could at times
>> > display extreme anger and perhaps a bit biased about other developments
>> like
>> > the recent bomb blasts. Simultaneously many of the postings generate a
>> Delhi
>> > centric opinion reminiscent of Hindi being India, so what about the
>> > periphery. Is it that what is good for Delhi should necessarily been
>> viewed
>> > as solution to the non-Delhi regions?
>> >
>> > But the point is that these exchanges certainly gives the impression as
>> > Tapas has very rightly stated, 'of an urge to establish hegemony over
>> > opponents - seems to be pushing the real thing to the edges, or at least
>> > warping the debate far too much'. Thus there have been attempts to
>> generate
>> > a conformist opinion and portray them as factual information.
>> >
>> > I leave to people like you and the sarai management to think of evolving
>> > some terms for such debates and contestations.
>> >
>> > Regards
>> >
>> > Radhakrishnan
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > [image: Rediff Shopping]<
>> http://adworks.rediff.com/cgi-bin/AdWorks/click.cgi/www.rediff.com/signature-home.htm/1050715198@Middle5/2206641_2199021/2201651/1?PARTNER=3&OAS_QUERY=null
>> >
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-- 
Partha Dasgupta
+919811047132


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