[Reader-list] Jamia Millia should be prosecuted

[Nazneen Anand Shamsi]

Dear Iram,

Thank you for your reply. I deeply appreciate your thoughts. I had a
rewarding time reading them. Now that it seems we are exchanging our
thoughts on two threads simultaneously, please allow me, first to reply to
your response regarding public/private conversations between list members,
followed by Jamia 'Blasts'.

1. On public/private conversations-

Does it not always takes us a while to understand things?

I am fine with your Johnny Come Lately understanding on this issue. You may
recall that in a mail I posted on the reader-list on the 23rd of Sept 2008,
I wrote in a clear, concise and precise language, about my intention to
interact only publicly with all list members. (Kindly allow me to quote- I
intend to have only ON LIST conversations with all or any members of this
list. I do not wish to hold any private conversations with list members.)
Having stated this, as clearly as, a not so literate person like yours truly
could, I had hoped that my message was unambiguous. Clearly, that was not
the case. I beg your pardon for that error.

For your sake, I repeat again- I do not want or desire 'different rules of
engagement'. I just want a public dialogue. Am I asking for too much for
anyone to handle? Is it too complex a form of communication or engagement?

 In all my humility Iram, I accept your apologies. I offer mine in the same
spirit. I hope you shall forgive me if I had caused you any distress. Thank
you for sharing with me your theoretical formulations with respect to reader
list. Now that you have spoken we can rest assured that reader-list is
indeed a -public space-. But I beg to differ, for as I understand
'public-spaces' are non-discriminatory spaces open to all without any
reservation to caste, class, ethnicity or gender. Reader list, in this
regard discriminates its participants on the basis of language. Reader-list,
therefore,  may be loosely termed as a 'closed' public space as it could be
termed a privileged  space in its broadest sense. The reader list closes its
public-ness especially if viewed from the perspective of a non-English
speaking person of course, who is  perhaps desirous of sharing this space.
Having said that, I,  as always, stand corrected and will look forward for
your refined thoughts on the nuances of definitions regarding
'public-spaces' and its relationship to reader-list.

I do not have any hesitation in sharing with you my list of regulations but
like a responsible list member I want to make sure that a sufficient
threshold is achieved first in terms of a consensus that, yes we need
regulations, before we could address the question-what kind of regulations-.
In this respect, you may have noticed that on a recent thread with subject
header-On Sarai Postings- which was initiated by Radhakrishnan, there are
only five posts. I would like to invite you and others on the list to join
this debate, of course, if you have time and inclination, and let us think
together on this very crucial issue. I would be extremely happy to hear your
kind views, if you have any, on regulation, conduct, content and modalities
of engagement on the reader list.

Before I respond to Jamia 'Blasts' debate, let me say that we could do away
with the practice of copy/paste jobs on the list. A link would suffice. I
think all of us here are net savvy enough to follow a link. As I reader I am
most interested in understanding how people think and what they think and
how they articulate their thoughts. If they want to share some literature
with me I welcome that gesture but I would rather that a link be given.

2. On Jamia BLASTS!

 -it would be great if you do not refer to the 'case' as 'jamia
blasts'! There were no blasts in Jamia.- There was an encounter in Batla
House-

I don't blame you Iram for your painful insistence to adhere to categories
given to us by the mass media. We are all bowling alone here aren't we, to
allude to that classic by Putnam. Numbing down. Dumbing down. The loop is
hypnotizing us. In an Orwellian sense, the Squealers are on the job again.
Giving us language. Making meaning. And we consume. Like a psychedelic drug.
And dance trance like. Blast. Encounter.Blast. Encounter. Blast. Encounter.
Legs apart. Hands in the air. Head floating. Eyes turned upward. Sweat
breaking all over. News just coming in There is a blast at CP. Blast at GK.
Blast at CP. Blast at GK. News just coming in There is an Encounter at
Jamia. Encounter at Jamia. Encounter at Jamia. And the dance begins. Blast.
Encounter. Blast. Encounter. Blast. Encounter. Lets go LIVE. Lets hear from
our correspondent. Legs apart. Hands in the air. Head floating. Eyes turned
upward. Sweat breaking all over. Till we are reduced to just a creature. And
Orwell says 'The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to
pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which
was which.'

But we are not creatures, are we? We seem to know which is which don't we?.
The loop has not hypnotized us. Has it?

Blast and Encounter.

Let's look at these words closely.

Encounter. A dictionary informs us encounter is a verb-

(used with object) to come upon or meet with, esp. unexpectedly: to
encounter a new situation. to meet with or contend against (difficulties,
opposition, etc.)to meet (a person, military force, etc.) in conflict:
–verb (used without object)to meet, esp. unexpectedly or in conflict: –noun
a meeting with a person or thing, esp. a casual, unexpected, or brief
meeting: Psychology. a meeting of two or more people, as the members of an
encounter group or a number of married couples (marriage encounter),
conducted to promote direct emotional confrontations among the participants,
esp. as a form of therapy (encounter therapy).
(http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=encounter)

For me what happened that day at CP, GK and Karol bagh was nothing less than
an encounter. People encountered their death. They met with their death
'unexpectedly'. That meeting was 'casual, and brief'. May be we have become
so tired of translating and interpretating that we have given up our faculty
to questions these words. We do not know now that it was a blast or an
encounter. We just want to blend in. Speak the lingo. Yet I refuse to accept
their word. I will not imagine what they want me to. I refuse to not to not
question their semantics.

Blast. The same dictionary says Blast may be a noun, a verb or an adjective-


a loud, sudden sound or noise,
the sudden death of buds, flowers, or young fruit.
to show to be false, unreliable, etc.; discredit to hit or
propel with great force
to shoot
(http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=blast)

Let us for the sake of argument re-phrase, what happend at Jamia that day.
There was a blast. A loud sudden noise. Followed by sudden death of young
men. Bullets flew with great force. Two students and a police person was
killed. Though now many people think that what happend was unrealible.

What happend at Jamia that day was clearly a blast!

A blast in the truest sense of the word. But who is bothered about truth
here. Perhaps in this mesmerising psyshedelic dance of live TV truth is the
first casulty. We will never know whether it was a blast or an encounter.
Although we would like to remember it as an encounter, because 'Times of
India' says so. Aaj Tak says so. We will insist on maintaning those
categories. Separate and distinct. Clear. We will confirm. We will not
question. And if someone does we shall correct her. May be she is on
psychedelic drugs. She insists on a dictionary. How crazy. A mere creature
who does not know which is which. And look at her. Legs apart. Hands in the
air. Head floating. Eyes turned upward. Sweat breaking all over. Dancing
trance like. Blast. Encounter. Blast. Encounter.

3. On possible options after the Jamia blasts!

Iram, frankly speaking, for me the issue is not about 'options', per se,
rather it is the act. I applaud Prof. Hasan's act in the event of
non-occurance of other acts or may be, perhaps OPTIONS for providing
immediate relief in some form to students. When one feels about something.
One acts. One does not necessarily explore options. May be Prof. Hasan felt
strongly about giving legal aid to students. And he acted.

-Parallels to caste based aid were drawn because you gave Salman Khurshid's
exmaple and impled that Jamia University should provide legal aid becuase
the students are from middle class backgrounds-

Let me state again what I implied- I find Prof. Hasan's spontaneous act of
offer to give legal aid to students who were clearly in need courageous. I
would like to consider this act unique. I am in no way none whatsoever in
favor of comparing or correlating this act to other
'ROUTINIZED/INSTITUTINALIZED' acts of disbersal of funds. Period.

4. On possible precedents to VC's act/option to provide legal aid.

Even if there weren't any precedents, one has to make a beginning some
where. I would regard any form of decision making process that relies on
occurance of prior events as the sole criteria for present optons
prohibitionary. It takes courage to go against the grain, even when one
knows that one could be wrong.

Best

Nazo




On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 7:10 PM, <iram at sarai.net> wrote:

> Dear Nazo
>
> I have understood your terms. There would be no personal emails from me -
> at least. Of course it took me time to realize that you dont want any
> interaction with a list member except on a public forum. My deepest
> apologies! I hope my individual/ personal email didnt cause too much
> distress.
>
> The reader list is a 'public space'. Hence my request to my co- members to
> send mails with 'content' and to think before clicking the send button. My
> email was not 'precribing' codes for email excahnge between individuals - I
> think people have to arrive at their individual codes themselves- such as
> the two of us have. No emails! Anyway, a private email exchange between two
> people doesnt concern others. There are different rules of engagement on a
> public forum with about 1400 members. You seem to be pushing for
> 'regulations' on the list. Why dont you suggest some? The reader list is as
> much your space as mine or the list admins. I am sure if list members see
> value in them, the list admin will respond. No hard feelings Nazo (I am
> tempted to make a smiley!) but I look forward to your suggestions for
> 'regulations'.
>
> Now regarding the unfortunate series of events under discussion, I have a
> request - it would be great if you do not refer to the 'case' as 'jamia
> blasts'! There were no blasts in Jamia. There were blasts in CP, GK and
> Karol Bagh. There was an encounter in Batla House and a couple of students
> from Jamia University have been arrested.
>
> Nazo, are you trying to suggest that the best possible way that Mushirul
> Hasan, Vice Chancellor of Jamia Millia Islamia, had, to help the accused of
> various blasts in the city, was to provide 'legal aid' on "behalf" of the
> University? The autonomous body that emerges from the University system -
> to provide legal aid to students accused of 'crimes against the state' was
> one suggestion - I find it difficult to believe that the VC had no options.
>
> Parallels to caste based aid were drawn because you gave Salman Khurshid's
> exmaple and impled that Jamia University should provide legal aid becuase
> the students are from middle class backgrounds. I am still as unconvinced
> by that logic as I was before. I know that needy/ meritorious students are
> provided scholarships. I didnt realise we could extend that to court cases
> involving 'terrorist activities'. Anyway, as far as I know Manjunath
> Shanmugam Trust fought the case for the the former IIM- Lucknow student.
> IIM lucknow did not fight the case directly. But these are facts gleaned
> from newspapers, so I could be wrong. However, I am not looking for a
> precedent where a University was directly involved in providing legal aid
> to students accused of 'terrorist' activities but nonetheless I would be
> curious to know if this has ever happened before, in other parts of the
> world if not in India.
>
> I am sure that the decision to provide legal aid falls within the purview
> of the VC office. I wonder if it was the correct decision.
>
> With All Respect
> Iram
>
>
>
> On 1:35 am 09/28/08 "Nazneen Anand Shamsi" <nazoshmasi at googlemail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Iram,
> >
> > What a pleasant surprise! I was not expecting yourresponse until
> > later, since you mentioned something aboutunavailability of email
> > access. Anyways!
> >
> > I would rather skipyour passage about list admin and
> > &#39;prescriptions&#39;, I just wanted tomake a point which was this-
> > that just as you want other members ofthis list to &#39;desist from
> > clicking send&#39;, because you want them torespect some un-written
> > modalities of engagement, so would I, in mypersonal capacity want
> > others to at least acknowledge some writtenmodalities of engagement. It
> > seems, all of us here- the writers, theresponders and the readers fail
> > sometimes to appreciate this. We wouldalways want to engage with others
> > on our own terms don&#39;t we. Please bepatient before sending those
> > &#39;desist&#39; mails if you in your personalcapacity cannot resist
> > from engaging others on their terms. Justbecause a particular address
> > is available on an internet search engine! Precisely the kind of
> > attitude demonstrated by some of our co-membersjust because there are
> > no argument-filters on reader list. Please showsome respect first and
> > then expect.
> >
> > Otherwise chart out clear, no-nonsense rules of engagement. I am all
> > for a regulatory code of conduct for Sarai Reader-list.
> >
> >  I just want to make a point. No bad feelings. Consider it white
> > noise and lets move on.
> >
> > Unless you wish to take this exchange forward...
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Regarding your response-
> >
> > Let me rephrase your position- you &#39;suggest&#39; concerned
> > partiesinvolved with the unfortunate Jamia blasts to &#39;consider&#39;
> > an option tomake autonomous committees on lines of All India Defense
> > Councilconstituted for a fair trail for SAR.
> >
> > To quote you
> > -I feel that an autonomous body (perhaps with University support -
> > Jamia, JNU and DU) should be set up - that provides legal aid and
> > counseling to students. The Universities can provide financial
> > support to such a body, the students can contribute and raise
> > independent funding. This is a tentative proposition which has had
> > precedent in various forms of Committees for Defense for people
> > accused of &#39;crimes&#39; against the &#39;State&#39;-
> >
> > Hypothetically if the three universities of Delhi need to
> > cometogether to form an autonomous set up, then, I would think that
> > theycould do so only by, exploring options available to them under the
> > UGC.No university can spend its money other wise. Even if UGC grants
> > themsuch a permission then it would result in creation of a formal
> > institution. Because every single paisa has to be accounted for.
> > Properprocedure needs to be put in place, issues related tohierarchy,
> > settling disputes etc needs to be dealt with. This institution, I would
> > imagine, would be asautonomous as CBI ! This is common sense insofar as
> > any dispensationof monies with respect to a state institution is
> > concerned. Even thoughyou may not have wanted this, but unfortunately
> > the wordings of yourargument suggest otherwise.
> >
> > Regarding Salman Khurshid. Let&#39;s enumerate what does he
> > signify.First he is a politician, second he is muslim, third he is a
> > practicingsupreme court lawyer, fourth he is rich, and fifth he
> > exercises a farmore social influence as compared to a son of man from
> > azamgarhwould. Financial status is just one of the many aspects of his
> > life. That is why perhaps, I was in total agreement to dispense
> > aidvis-a-vis social position in this instance. I still do.
> >
> > With respect to my opinion regarding the use of same logic todispense
> > aid based on social position and not on caste, I would suggestthat we
> > talk about it. Because I find the use of categories to classifycaste
> > problematic. I think there needs to be more debate before wecould even
> > begin to explore this issue. However, I will not persuadeanyone to
> > universalize one&#39;s thinking, insomuch as one is blind to themerits
> > of a case which is as particular as Jamia blasts. I believe the caste
> > issue, particularly in India, isa separate issue and cannot be in any
> > way compared to Jamia blasts. Hencean overarching common argument does
> > not hold.
> >
> > Regarding Chandramohan&#39;s argument. You will recall that in my
> > firstresponse to your mail on this thread, I had specifically mentioned
> > thenames of Satyendra Dubey and Manjunath. Both were ex-students
> > oftheir institutions, both were involved in activities that lay outside
> > thepurview of their institutions and both of them were killed. Yet
> > thedirectors of their former institutions took an initiative to help
> > set upformal bodies to advocate justice for them. Just as Prof.Hasan
> > hasdecided to do so.
> >
> > I have no objections, none whatsoever, if bodies like AIDC are setup
> > to defend and insist on a fair trail for Jamia blasts accused.However,
> > in the non-event of setting up of such a body, I welcome theinitiative
> > taken up by Prof.Hasan and wish that accused will be given afair
> > trial. I send you and everyone else on this list good wishes for
> > festivities next week.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Nazo
>
>