[Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination

anupam chakravartty c.anupam at gmail.com
Thu Jul 23 18:34:35 IST 2009


Unfortunately for Mr Malik stuck in the cozy confines of New Delhi, it
becomes difficult to understand that a good guide or a driver (under no
circumstances in his own area of domicile) would NOT let his passengers
or any tourist fight for his own battle.

On 7/23/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:

> May be she meant, we Indians  and the kashmiri,  ..... like the north
> indian
> individuals  always refer to "madrasi" forgetting that there are five
> federal states in earlier "MADRAS" province of british ruled India.,,
> colonial hang over, unspoied by the freedom gained.!
>
> Regards,
>
> Rajen.
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 9:17 PM, A.K. Malik <akmalik45 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Dear Ms Meera Rizwi,
> >                    I have not been able to understand the intent of the
> > following:
> > "The surprise was, that
> >  even as we, the
> >  Indians were cowering in the back of our cab, the Kashmiri
> >  driver, unarmed
> >  and alone, was fighting back."
> > What do you mean by we, the Indians and .....Kashmiri driver.
> > Regards,
> >
> > (A.K.MALIK)
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 7/22/09, Meera Rizvi <meera.rizvi at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Meera Rizvi <meera.rizvi at gmail.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination
> > > To: "Inder Salim" <indersalim at gmail.com>
> > > Cc: "reader-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 9:18 AM
> > > Dear All,
> > >
> > > I have just read 'Curfewed Night' by Basharat Peer - a
> > > deeply disturbing
> > > book. While we can argue the merits and demerits of the
> > > book and the
> > > journalistic ethics of its author, one thing that emerges
> > > clearly is that
> > > for peace to be lasting, it must be just. For twenty years,
> > > Kashmir has
> > > lived in the shadows of guns - those of militants and the
> > > army.
> > >
> > > Recently, on a visit to Kashmir, our cab was stopped at an
> > > army check post.
> > > The fault of the driver - he was driving too close to the
> > > army truck moving
> > > in front. Army men were aggressive and brutal, roughing him
> > > up and
> > > threatening him with an 'encounter'. The surprise was, that
> > > even as we, the
> > > Indians were cowering in the back of our cab, the Kashmiri
> > > driver, unarmed
> > > and alone, was fighting back. The army men tried to drag
> > > him into a nearby
> > > orchard. He resisted and instead flagged down cars coming
> > > from the opposite
> > > direction. In a short time, there was a traffic jam. The
> > > jawans backed off
> > > and the driver became more aggressive.
> > >
> > > The CRPF jawans were rude and abusive and maintained the
> > > swagger of the
> > > conqueror with the conquered. The humiliations they heaped
> > > on the driver
> > > were unjustified. Yet, paradoxically, when my 9-year old
> > > niece burst into
> > > tears, these same jawans took a moment off to console and
> > > assuage her fears.
> > >
> > > Kashmir is complex and complicated. It is a place where it
> > > is dangerous to
> > > have an opinion. And there is an entire generation which
> > > has grown up with
> > > that fear. So much so, that they no longer recognize it.
> > > Their instinct for
> > > survival has been dulled by years of brutality and
> > > violence. They are no
> > > longer afraid to die.
> > >
> > > Can peace be forced on these people? Somehow, I don't think
> > > so. Can peace be
> > > brokered? Maybe....But it would take time to undo the real
> > > or percieved
> > > oppression of decades. MEanwhile, they are out on streets
> > > protesting. Isn't
> > > that democracy?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Meera
> > >
> > >
> > > On 7/19/09, Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear All
> > > > KASHMIR ,once again on the List, and we see, familiar
> > > names throwing
> > > > up their well known convictions.I am also throwing my
> > > own bit, as
> > > > usual. Nothing new, which confirms that Kashmir issue
> > > is alive as much
> > > > as it was in 1947.
> > > >
> > > > Here, I cant stop thinking about Sheikh Abdullah who
> > > stood like a wall
> > > > between the merger of Kashmir with Pakistan. Had he
> > > not been so
> > > > courageous and far sighted, Kashmir would been another
> > > Swat, or worse
> > > > in the present. Sheikh was a real hero of his times.
> > > Where Gandhi
> > > > failed to curb the large scale communal violence
> > > Sheikh succeeded in
> > > > Kashmir. He was a down to earth Kashmiri who wanted
> > > good for Kashmiris
> > > > irrespective of religious and ethnic considerations.
> > > >
> > > > But one wrong step on the intellectual-land-mine laid
> > > by Indian
> > > > Government made us to witness Indira-Sheikh Accord
> > > which obviously
> > > > blew him to bits . He suffered a dent in his forehead
> > > bone, which is
> > > > now part of his image in Kashmir. Had he not agreed to
> > > eat the Indian
> > > > bait, he would have been nothing less than Nelson
> > > Mandela of this
> > > > subcontinent. But alas, his coterie and his own
> > > complacency led him to
> > > > his downfall. But, this is what I feel, and most
> > > probably Shikeh
> > > > himself was a changed man and wanted to relish the
> > > luxuries of power
> > > > which Indira Gandhi granted him blindly.
> > > >
> > > > The present day representatives of that 1947 issue in
> > > Kashmir is less
> > > > perfect than what Sheikh had innately in his bones,
> > > and as reports
> > > > fall in, they are already on Indian diet.
> > > >
> > > > The question, now is that who are these
> > > unfortunate  people who
> > > > failed to see a genuine leadership/representative in
> > > the valley.
> > > > Paradoxically, Indian Goverentment has done one good
> > > thing that it is
> > > > aborted all the efforts of Pakistan to annex Kashmir.
> > > But, on the
> > > > other hand it has done nothing to understand the
> > > Kashmiri sentiments.
> > > > Kashmir deserved freedom in 47 but it was denied. May
> > > be British
> > > > rulers were comfortable with that arrangement, but
> > > very little is said
> > > > on their role to divide Kashmir.
> > > >
> > > > Jinnah was not off the mark in his comment ‘blank
> > > cheque in his
> > > > pocket’ while speaking on Kashmir, since he knew
> > > that people in
> > > > Kashmir would happily agree to join Pakistan in 1947.
> > > But Sheikh
> > > > turned his dream into a nightmare, and Nehru turned
> > > Sheikhs dream into
> > > > a nightmare. It is all sad, that Kashmiri sentiments
> > > were not
> > > > respected by these two nation theorist of 1947.
> > > >
> > > > In 1990, Kashmiris had no choice but to eat Pakistani
> > > line on Kashmir
> > > > issue, since election were rigged openly. In the
> > > ‘Pakistani line’
> > > > Kashmiri Hindus were the first targets, and so were
> > > numerous  other
> > > > political representatives. It was war against Indian
> > > face in the
> > > > valley. But Pakistan again had its own axe to grind,
> > > and wanted
> > > > Kashmiris to become Pakistanis first and then
> > > Kashmirs, which they
> > > > denied, and so we saw kashmiri militants/jihads
> > > fighting each other.
> > > > Indian diplomacy gained, Pakistani diplomacy suffered,
> > > but at the cost
> > > > of thousands of kashmiris dead,  for a cause or
> > > without a cause.
> > > >
> > > > It is ironical that after all these years we have the
> > > same coalition
> > > > in power in Kashmir which openly rigged elections in
> > > 1989. A simple
> > > > anger against this kind of polity is inevitable, which
> > > is compounded
> > > > by the presence of troops on every paddy field and
> > > every roof top.
> > > > Nothing can prevent Kashmir from its agenda of
> > > freedom, since both
> > > > Indian and Pakistani stands on Kashmir are unaltered.
> > > Quite boring.
> > > >
> > > > There are many reasons why a particular community
> > > turns
> > > > fundamentalist. We have all the reasons to blame‘
> > > the cold war ’
> > > > tactics which gave birth to this monster called
> > > fundamentalism. Now we
> > > > know why Turkey is not, and why Pakistan is a failed
> > > state.
> > > >
> > > > Because of Indian mind set, I believe, Kashmir has
> > > become more
> > > > religious minded over the last 20 years , which is not
> > > a healthy sign,
> > > > but modernity too has failed on various counts at the
> > > same time. For
> > > > example, devastation of the environment is one thing
> > > which can  white
> > > > wash all the pending issues and only our survival on
> > > earth will be the
> > > > issue.
> > > >
> > > > In Kashmir, no new politics emerged, no new ways of
> > > living emerged.
> > > > Creating a new nation state is obviously the dream of
> > > an average
> > > > Kashmiri, but is that dream deep enough to sustain the
> > > masses? How to
> > > > talk sustainability in the present without any
> > > compromise on their
> > > > cherished dream of a free state? That is the challenge
> > > before
> > > > Kashmiris. They still can guide the world, but may
> > > be  by looking into
> > > > their language, and their sufi ways of living, rather
> > > than picking up
> > > > a gun which is as easy as holding a cricket bat. But
> > > life is not a
> > > > sports. It is a big responsibility.
> > > >
> > > > With love and regards
> > > > is
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Rahul Asthana<
> rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "First a peaceful life needs to be ensured,
> > > > >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion."
> > > > > So what are you proposing?I support withdrawal of
> > > AFSpA.Nobody can ensure
> > > > Pakistan army discontinuing its policy of sponsoring
> > > terrorism because its
> > > > their bread and butter.If you look at the terms of the
> > > UN resolution India
> > > > is under no obligation to provide for any sort of
> > > referendum in the light of
> > > > the current role of the Pakistan army.
> > > > > The Pakistan army is not an easy monster to
> > > tame.Its a highly organised
> > > > criminal mafia which has full support of the United
> > > States
> > > > administration.Indian state is a ruthless entity in
> > > itself but its nothing
> > > > compared to the Pakistan army which uses its citizens
> > > as canon fodder to
> > > > blackmail other governments. With such kind of an
> > > institution in power,one
> > > > should not expect India to unilaterally disengage from
> > > Kashmir.In my opinion
> > > > the prerequisite for a long term stable solution in
> > > Kashmir is a stable
> > > > democracy in Pakistan with a defanged army.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta <sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> From: subhrodip sengupta <sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in>
> > > > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and
> > > Self Determination
> > > > >> To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > > >> Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 8:46 AM
> > > > >> Dear Rahul,
> > > > >> Would not any war time settlement like this
> > > be unstable?
> > > > >> Will not the terms be economically harsh for
> > > the 'new
> > > > >> state'? Will not a promise or hope for such
> > > issues only keep
> > > > >> violence alive? First a peaceful life needs
> > > to be ensured,
> > > > >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion.
> > > > >> Regards,
> > > > >> Subhrodip.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ________________________________
> > > > >> From: Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
> > > > >> To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. <reader-list at sarai.net>;
> > > > >> subhrodip sengupta <sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in>
> > > > >> Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 7:37:39 AM
> > > > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and
> > > Self
> > > > >> Determination
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Dear Subhrodip,
> > > > >> I agree.India and Pakistan have messed
> > > Kashmir up.AFSpA
> > > > >> should be scrapped and Pakistan should stop
> > > sending
> > > > >> terrorists . The question is what role should
> > > you or I
> > > > >> choose.What should be our criteria to support
> > > or oppose a
> > > > >> particular course of action in Kashmir? There
> > > are people
> > > > >> like  Junaid who are not really worried
> > > about how many
> > > > >> people die everyday.For them Kashmiri
> > > nationalism is as much
> > > > >> an article of faith as Indian Nationalism is
> > > to those who
> > > > >> believe in the "Atut Ang theory".The right of
> > > self
> > > > >> determination is not axiomatic and so is not
> > > the right of
> > > > >> India to retain Kashmir by force. I humbly
> > > submit that we
> > > > >> should not be dogmatic about any nationalism
> > > and should
> > > > >> advocate the course of action that results in
> > > resolving the
> > > > >> impasse in Kashmir.Then again, I can only
> > > speak for myself.
> > > > >> Thanks
> > > > >> Rahul
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta
> > > <sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in>
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > From: subhrodip sengupta <sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in>
> > > > >> > Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and
> > > Self
> > > > >> Determination
> > > > >> > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > > >> > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 7:15 AM
> > > > >> > Dear all,
> > > > >> > This problem shall continue if the
> > > posession of land
> > > > >> for
> > > > >> > all those who lost it due to the queer
> > > laws of
> > > > >> inheritance
> > > > >> > in Kashmir, and those who were chased
> > > out of
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> it........................................................................................................
> > > > >> > Kashmiri Pandits and people assaulted
> > > either by Indian
> > > > >> or by
> > > > >> > militant Armed forces. Amidst the heated
> > > and quite
> > > > >> > interesting discussions, one question
> > > I'd like to
> > > > >> >
> > > ask.....................................
> > > > >> > Religion, Nation etc. should occupy a
> > > limited extent
> > > > >> of our
> > > > >> > lives so that they crown those aspects
> > > where they are
> > > > >> > needed. Because I am an Indian, I
> > > shouldnt rape poorer
> > > > >> Gori
> > > > >> > Chamris just for the pleasure of it, a
> > > case of dire
> > > > >> racism.
> > > > >> > Introducing Baluchstan, made Pak
> > > ................
> > > > >> > Why should not kasmiris decide and Not
> > > India or Pak or
> > > > >> Bg
> > > > >> > Bro? Ok, but lets see why this sore gets
> > > so sensitive
> > > > >> and
> > > > >> > hurts at slightest touch, my newspaper
> > > readings
> > > > >> suggests it
> > > > >> > is the Indian armed forces and the armed
> > > act, army
> > > > >> appearing
> > > > >> > in every domain of social life and so
> > > the anti-army
> > > > >> forces,
> > > > >> > that makes these people crave for a
> > > different kind of
> > > > >> > independance, from the state which doent
> > > want to
> > > > >> repeal the
> > > > >> > special armed forces act, riddled in a
> > > political
> > > > >> struggle,
> > > > >> > banded into the freedom wagon. Why isnt
> > > the peace
> > > > >> option not
> > > > >> > recognised? My reading of this however
> > > would not be
> > > > >> much
> > > > >> > different from Lallu time railways or
> > > Maharasthra's
> > > > >> Son of
> > > > >> > Soil pol by Raj Thackrey..............
> > > > >> > Only if life was more normalised, we
> > > could retain
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> kashmir....................................................................
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > ________________________________
> > > > >> > From: Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
> > > > >> > To: reader-list at sarai.net;
> > > > >> > Junaid justjunaid at gmail..com
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 3:05:13 AM
> > > > >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir
> > > has no case
> > > > >> for
> > > > >> > self-determination
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Hi Junaid,
> > > > >> > There is a difference between a
> > > colonized body of land
> > > > >> and
> > > > >> > a constituent state of a democracy.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > What do you think makes Kashmir more of
> > > a nation than
> > > > >> > say,Tamil Nadu?If I am getting it right,
> > > you are
> > > > >> defining
> > > > >> > Kashmir nation through "a sense of
> > > solidarity based
> > > > >> on
> > > > >> > principle of justice and freedom".Is
> > > that correct?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Also, in your opinion,is India the only
> > > occupying
> > > > >> nation in
> > > > >> > Kashmir or do
> > > > >> > you give Pakistan that distinction as
> > > well?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Thanks
> > > > >> > Rahul
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Junaid <justjunaid at gmail.com>
> > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > > From: Junaid <justjunaid at gmail.com>
> > > > >> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why
> > > Kashmir has no
> > > > >> case for
> > > > >> > self-determination
> > > > >> > > To: reader-list at sarai.net
> > > > >> > > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 12:44
> > > AM
> > > > >> > > Kashmir is a case of a nation
> > > > >> > > fighting for its liberation.
> > > National
> > > > >> > > liberation struggles work on the
> > > democratic
> > > > >> principle
> > > > >> > of
> > > > >> > > self-determination.. This principle
> > > of
> > > > >> > self-determination
> > > > >> > > does not
> > > > >> > > emerge from the charter of the UN
> > > or any other
> > > > >> > > multinational document.
> > > > >> > > But on the contrary what is
> > > enshrined in the UN
> > > > >> > Charter
> > > > >> > > emerged from
> > > > >> > > an ethical realisation that
> > > self-determination is
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > > foundational
> > > > >> > > principle to achieve justice-which
> > > in turn is the
> > > > >> bed
> > > > >> > rock
> > > > >> > > for peace.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Two world wars later this principle
> > > was widely
> > > > >> > accepted.
> > > > >> > > And it proved
> > > > >> > > to be a shot in the arm for the
> > > decolonization
> > > > >> > movement,
> > > > >> > > which
> > > > >> > > resulted in the victory for the
> > > anti-colonial
> > > > >> > struggles in
> > > > >> > > the Indian
> > > > >> > > subcontinent and in other places.
> > > (On the
> > > > >> betrayal of
> > > > >> > > anti-colonial
> > > > >> > > struggle though, I might add
> > > quickly what Faiz
> > > > >> said
> > > > >> > "Yeh
> > > > >> > > woh seher to
> > > > >> > > nahin jis ki aarizu lekar.." or
> > > what Mehjoor
> > > > >> spoke
> > > > >> > when he
> > > > >> > > lamented
> > > > >> > > the "Freedom, you knocked only on a
> > > few
> > > > >> doors...").
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Anti-colonial strugglers had been
> > > arguing for the
> > > > >> same
> > > > >> > for
> > > > >> > > ever, but
> > > > >> > > colonizers almost ended up
> > > annihilating each
> > > > >> other
> > > > >> > before
> > > > >> > > realising
> > > > >> > > colonialism couldn't continue. It
> > > took a lot of
> > > > >> > struggle
> > > > >> > > and sacrifice
> > > > >> > > from the colonised people to make
> > > it happen.
> > > > >> > Colonisers
> > > > >> > > tried every
> > > > >> > > trick up their sleeve to defer the
> > > eventuality.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > It is not important if Kashmir has
> > > "a case for"
> > > > >> > > self-determination or
> > > > >> > > not. There is no court that can
> > > decide that. At
> > > > >> least
> > > > >> > it is
> > > > >> > > not
> > > > >> > > important for Kashmiris to know if
> > > "Indian
> > > > >> > nationalists"
> > > > >> > > think they
> > > > >> > > have a case. It would be naive to
> > > believe that
> > > > >> Indian
> > > > >> > > nationalists for
> > > > >> > > whom "the idea of India" is like a
> > > religious
> > > > >> > faith--and in
> > > > >> > > fact is a
> > > > >> > > religious faith--would come around
> > > and change
> > > > >> their
> > > > >> > opinion
> > > > >> > > on it--
> > > > >> > > least through discussion. What is
> > > important is
> > > > >> that
> > > > >> > > Kashmiris think
> > > > >> > > that they have the case, and a need
> > > for freedom
> > > > >> and
> > > > >> > > independence. It
> > > > >> > > is clear that over the last 80
> > > years of
> > > > >> > struggle--first
> > > > >> > > against Dogra
> > > > >> > > rulers and then against the Indian
> > > rule--the case
> > > > >> in
> > > > >> > the
> > > > >> > > eyes of
> > > > >> > > Kashmiris has grown stronger than
> > > ever.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > National liberation struggles start
> > > like pebbles
> > > > >> > rolling
> > > > >> > > down the
> > > > >> > > hill, and end up like avalanches.
> > > More and more
> > > > >> > people,
> > > > >> > > young people,
> > > > >> > > even small kids, (more strongly
> > > than generations
> > > > >> > before
> > > > >> > > them) feel
> > > > >> > > that being Kashmiri has a meaning
> > > to them. More
> > > > >> and
> > > > >> > more
> > > > >> > > they
> > > > >> > > understand this idea of being
> > > Kashmiri as
> > > > >> running
> > > > >> > counter
> > > > >> > > to any
> > > > >> > > individual or group affliation with
> > > the idea of
> > > > >> India.
> > > > >> > The
> > > > >> > > idea of
> > > > >> > > India is understood as something
> > > that stops them
> > > > >> from
> > > > >> > > being
> > > > >> > > Kashmiri--a condition which is
> > > utterly
> > > > >> unacceptable
> > > > >> > to
> > > > >> > > them. The idea
> > > > >> > > of independence has grown
> > > exponentially since
> > > > >> Sheikh
> > > > >> > > Abdullah's Naya
> > > > >> > > Kashmir document. The desire for
> > > independence
> > > > >> when it
> > > > >> > > couples itself
> > > > >> > > with the need for it, is
> > > unstoppable.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Nationalism in Kashmir acts more
> > > like a national
> > > > >> > solidarity
> > > > >> > > based on
> > > > >> > > principles of justice and freedom,
> > > instead of
> > > > >> feeding
> > > > >> > on
> > > > >> > > the notions
> > > > >> > > of "a glorious past" or the
> > > chauvinist idea of
> > > > >> "the
> > > > >> > chosen
> > > > >> > > people".
> > > > >> > > Within the current global discourse
> > > of "Islam",
> > > > >> > however,
> > > > >> > > Kashmiris too
> > > > >> > > get a bad name for being Muslims,
> > > which in the
> > > > >> > long-run
> > > > >> > > does not have
> > > > >> > > drastic consequences though. It
> > > will wane.
> > > > >> > Islamophobia
> > > > >> > > cannot hold.
> > > > >> > > There are more than 1.5 billion
> > > Muslims all over
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > world
> > > > >> > > which
> > > > >> > > otherwise the world have to contend
> > > with as
> > > > >> enemies.
> > > > >> > > Anti-Hindu
> > > > >> > > sentiment in some sections of
> > > Kashmiris is not
> > > > >> only a
> > > > >> > > result of the
> > > > >> > > past experiences of the Dogra rule
> > > but also of
> > > > >> how
> > > > >> > the
> > > > >> > > Indian
> > > > >> > > occupation and the neo-Hinduism get
> > > entwined.
> > > > >> For
> > > > >> > > Kashmiris, 80 years
> > > > >> > > of struggle against an overtly
> > > Hindu Dogra rule,
> > > > >> and
> > > > >> > then
> > > > >> > > the transfer
> > > > >> > > of rule to an increasingly Hindu
> > > India, makes
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > > imperial-territorial
> > > > >> > > discourse of neo-Hinduism a
> > > symbolic foe. There
> > > > >> are
> > > > >> > no
> > > > >> > > doctrinal
> > > > >> > > issues in the sense where Hindus
> > > and Muslims
> > > > >> can't sit
> > > > >> > and
> > > > >> > > live
> > > > >> > > together. In Kashmir, and in India,
> > > they have. No
> > > > >> one
> > > > >> > in
> > > > >> > > Srinagar
> > > > >> > > would say they want to put Islam's
> > > green flag on
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > red
> > > > >> > > fort.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > This is the nationalism of the
> > > Fourth World. A
> > > > >> world
> > > > >> > which
> > > > >> > > is utterly
> > > > >> > > betrayed by the promises of the
> > > Third
> > > > >> World--which by
> > > > >> > > mimicking the
> > > > >> > > First World, in rhetoric and
> > > substance looks and
> > > > >> > behaves
> > > > >> > > like former
> > > > >> > > colonial countries.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > And Kashmiris don't expect that
> > > "Azadi" will be
> > > > >> given
> > > > >> > on a
> > > > >> > > platter. It
> > > > >> > > will be taken through everyday
> > > anti-occupation
> > > > >> > struggle by
> > > > >> > > Kashmiris.
> > > > >> > > It will take time. Kashmiris have
> > > suffered much
> > > > >> but
> > > > >> > there
> > > > >> > > is very
> > > > >> > > little fatigue. As the struggle
> > > intensifies, so
> > > > >> will
> > > > >> > > oppression. But
> > > > >> > > that will be the undoing og the
> > > occupation.
> > > > >> India
> > > > >> > will
> > > > >> > > leave Kashmir
> > > > >> > > because there is no other way. I
> > > only hope it
> > > > >> doesn't
> > > > >> > > happen at the
> > > > >> > > end of a catastrophe that engufls
> > > the entire
> > > > >> > subcontinent.
> > > > >> > >
> > > _________________________________________
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> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > _________________________________________
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> > > > >> >       Yahoo!
> > > recommends that you upgrade to
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> > > > http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/
> > > > >> >
> > > _________________________________________
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> > > > >>
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> > > > > _________________________________________
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
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> > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
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> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Meera
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>
> --
> Rajen.
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