[Reader-list] Fw: Re: we are all stunned

M Javed javedmasoo at gmail.com
Wed Jun 10 11:54:23 IST 2009 

Dear Vedavati and Malik
Firstly, it is wrong to say that Muslim leaders never condemn wrongs
done to the people of other faiths. One can quote thousands of
instances on Muslims condemning acts of terrorism and violence where
people of other (non-Muslim) communities have been affected. (If you
are interested, I can send the links and references). But a more
important point is: why should we expect only Muslim leaders to come
up with a condemnation? What does that prove? A condemnation of an
event by someone may express one's honest angst about something, but
it can also be a superficial lip-service to create a feel-good factor.
Why should someone do a superficial media-act to show one's
patriotism? If Muslims keep condemning the plight of Kashmiri pandits,
will they get a certificate of bonafide Indian nationals?

I really wonder what does a mere criticism or condemnation in public
about an event mean anything? Does it heal the wounds of the affected
people? Does it stop the perpetrators from their acts of violence?

Javed

On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 11:18 AM, A.K. Malik<akmalik45 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>      I agree and respect your views. I have rarely seen any muslim leader or others criticizing any wrong being done by people of their own faith except Hindus of course most of whom cry more for any atrocity on persons of specific religion and remain silent when it is on persons of their own religion.
> There are thousands of so called seculars who have condemned post Godhra violence, very few for Godhra incident and almost none for atrocities on Kashmiri Hindus.
> You are not "secular" unless you kick people of your own faith whether wrong or right is immaterial.
> Regards,
>
> (A.K.MALIK)
>
>
> --- On Wed, 6/10/09, Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: i was stunned
>> To: "A.K. Malik" <akmalik45 at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
>> Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 10:21 AM
>> thank you mr. malik for this
>> mail. i know you are not a pseudo-secular, 'liberal'
>> or 'thinker' etc.
>> still you did not like the  idea of
>> throwing muslims out of this country.
>>
>> this is the difference between hindus &
>> muslims!  trust me i wanted to prove this to all.
>>
>> majority of muslims in pakistan or bangladesh, kashmir
>>  even india, don't show this magnonimity towards
>> hindus. i have not seen any muslim leader caring for hindu
>> migrants from kashmir.
>>
>> yet sickulars in india keep talking about
>> 'sufferings of muslims in india'
>> this continuous hindubashing is responsible for
>> creating gulf between citizens of different faiths in india
>> .
>>
>> i am not a religious fanatic,  i would never want
>> to throw any common citizen (irrespective of his or her
>> faith) to be thrown out of this country. i possess great
>> respect for dr. kalam, i just loved rafi, madhubala, i love
>> to listen to jakir hussain's tabla and like to watch
>> irfan pathan's game. list is very big!
>>
>> vedavati
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Tue, 9/6/09, A.K. Malik
>> <akmalik45 at yahoo..com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: A.K. Malik <akmalik45 at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: i was stunned
>> To: "Vedavati Jogi"
>> <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: "Sarai List" <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> Date: Tuesday, 9 June, 2009, 1:36 PM
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Vedvatiji,
>>
>>    I am normally a critcizer of Hindu bashing
>> but I find this to be strange. What has Pakistan to do with
>> Indian Muslims, they are Indian citizens as we are and have
>> the same rights as we have? And who has given this power to
>> Balasaheb Thakre to send Indian Citizens to Pakistan? It is
>> a different matter if some are willing to go on their own
>> accord and Pakistan is ready to accept them.If the same is
>> being done to Indians in Australia and North America why are
>> we then troubled.
>> In this Globalised world, such a thinking will definitely
>> bring another partition.
>> I find the Press to be also responsible for bringing such a
>> division amongst citizens. Newspaper headings:
>> "A Woman and DALIT becomes speaker for the first
>> time"
>> "Vahanvati is first MUSLIM Attorney
>> General"    Today's Times of India Front
>> Page
>> The emphasis is not the MERIT
>>  which has brought them to these levels, it is on Dalit and
>> Muslim as if they have become eligible only now or they have
>> been appointed as if the requirement was for a Dalit and a
>> Muslim and no merit was required.That is one reason I am
>> against reservations of any kind. The help/assistance
>> needs  only to be given for grooming.
>>
>> (A.K.MALIK)
>>
>>
>> --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > From: Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: i was stunned
>> > To: "Venugopalan K M" <kmvenuannur at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
>> > Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 7:07 PM
>> > i don't speak for hindus,
>> > i care for my nation!
>> > this  socalled  philosophy of secularism and
>> liberalism
>> > is dividing the nation and disarming hindus
>> > and i can't see my country being partitioned again
>> .
>> >
>> > once balasaheb thakare had said, if pakistan wants
>> kashmir
>> > (because kashmir is a muslim majority state) then they
>> will
>> > have to accept 20 crore muslim refugees from india
>> too.
>> >
>> > i support this statement.
>> >
>> > vedavati
>> > --- On Sun, 7/6/09, Venugopalan K M <kmvenuannur at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > From: Venugopalan K M <kmvenuannur at gmail.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: i was stunned
>> > To: "sarai-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> > Date: Sunday, 7 June, 2009, 3:38 PM
>> >
>> >
>> > Ignorance may be bliss; arrogance might be bliss as
>> well,
>> > at least until
>> > someone gets held up for rash assumptions on others..
>> > However, certain manifestations of ignorance plus
>> arrogance
>> > are better to be
>> > left as they are; I believe that will be healthy for
>> people
>> > on both sides of
>> > the divide..
>> > Feel no temptation to
>>  dispute the contents here;
>> > but who are you to speak for the entire Hindus in
>> India,any
>> > way?
>> >
>> > Peace and love,
>> > Venu.
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > good -that israel govt did not listen to you and
>> > returned socalled occupied
>> > > territories to palestinians. i never knew that
>> there
>> > are pseudo seculars in
>> > > israel too (like india)
>> > >
>> > > you feel govt. of india should give autonomy to
>> > kashmir, are you aware that
>> > > kashmiri hindus have been thrown out of kashmir?
>> > > do you find muslims so
>>  trustworthy that in autonomous,
>> > muslims dominated
>> > > state hindus can remain safe?
>> > >
>> > > whole pakistan is a muslim occupied india, are
>> you
>> > aware of that?
>> > >
>> > >  vedavati
>> > >
>> > > --- On Sun, 7/6/09, Alex Stein <alex.stein at talk21.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: Alex Stein <alex.stein at talk21.com>
>> > > Subject: Re: i was stunned
>> > > To: "Vedavati Jogi" <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
>> > > Date: Sunday, 7 June, 2009, 2:58 AM
>> >
>>  >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > 1. I think we should return the Occupied
>> Territories
>> > (West Bank, Gaza, East
>> > > Jerusalem) to the Palestinian people.
>> > >
>> > > 2. I never said I speak for Kashmir.
>> > >
>> > > 3. I think the valley should be autonomous
>> (nobody
>> > should be removed from
>> > > their homes).
>> > >
>> > > 4. That is for you and Pakistan to decide over
>> the
>> > course - hopefully one
>> > > day - of peace negotiations.
>> > >
>> > > A
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > falsedichotomies.com
>> > >
>> > > "The most radical and the only secure form
>> of
>> > possession is destruction,
>> > > for only what we have destroyed is safely and
>> forever
>> > ours." Hannah Arendt
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --- On Sat, 6/6/09, Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
>> > > Subject: Re: i was stunned
>> > > To: "Alex Stein" <alex.stein at talk21.com>
>> > > Date: Saturday, 6 June, 2009, 7:38 PM
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > hello alex,
>> > > 1) will you give part of your country to any
>> other
>> > nation?
>> > > 2) who has given you right to speak for kashmir?
>> > > 3) if kashmir is given to muslims what about
>>  those
>> > hindus who have been
>> > > living there since last thousand years?
>> > > 4) will you dare to tell pakistan to give our
>> land
>> > back?
>> > > vedavati
>> > >
>> > > --- On Sun, 7/6/09, Alex Stein <alex.stein at talk21.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: Alex Stein <alex.stein at talk21.com>
>> > > Subject: Re: i was stunned
>> > > To: "Vedavati Jogi" <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
>> > > Date: Sunday, 7 June, 2009, 2:27 AM
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>  >
>> > >
>> > > Hi Vedavti,
>> > > Thanks for your email.
>> > > We are not standing in opposition to Hindus. I
>> deeply
>> > love India, its
>> > > culture and its people. I believe, though, that
>> the
>> > Kashmir people have a
>> > > right to self-determination, just like anyone
>> else,
>> > and I believe that it is
>> > > in India's interest to grant it to them, at
>> least when
>> > the time is right.
>> > > Best wishes,
>> > > Alex Stein
>> > >
>> > > PS - you may be interested in my blog of my
>> travels in
>> > India last summer -
>> > > wanderingsatlan.blogspot.com
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > falsedichotomies.com
>> > >
>> > > "The most radical and the only secure form
>> of
>> > possession is destruction,
>> > > for only what we have destroyed is safely and
>> forever
>> > ours." Hannah Arendt
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>  >
>> > > --- On Fri, 5/6/09, Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
>> > > Subject: i was stunned
>> > > To: alex.stein at talk21.com
>> > > Date: Friday, 5 June, 2009, 7:10 AM
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > hello sir,
>> > >
>> > > i went thru. your article about
>> 'jeuish-kashmiri
>> > dialogue group
>> > > honestly i was stunned.
>> > > i believe you have
>>  been told absoluetly wrong
>> > history.
>> > >
>> > >  do you know how much these kashmiri hindus
>> have
>> > suffered at the hands of
>> > > muslims in kashmir?
>> > >
>> > > hindusthan is the only country which gave shelter
>> to
>> > people of your
>> > > religion whole heartedly that was because
>> hindusthan
>> > is a hindu dominated
>> > > country.
>> > > i really wonder how can you try to befriend
>> muslims,
>> > basically how can you
>> > > trust them? have you people not suffered at the
>> hands
>> > of muslims?
>> > > have you not heard about 'muslim
>> brotherhood'?
>> > > rightnow, you may think that muslims in kashmir
>> were
>> > friendly with you
>> > > hence they are nice. but are you sure that when
>> you
>> > fight with other muslim
>> > > countries, these same kashmiri friends of yours
>> will
>> > support you against the
>> > > latter?
>> >
>>  >
>> > > i sincerely feel, hindus, and not muslims
>> can be
>> > your natural allies.
>> > >
>> > > vedavati
>> > > india
>> > >
>> > >
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>> > > _________________________________________
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>> >
>> > --
>> > http://venukm.blogspot.com/
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