[Reader-list] Is India secular

Tue Mar 17 17:04:54 IST 2009

Dear Shivam

I wanted to tackle this issue separately (too many thoughts muddle me up)

You wrote "......no question of Muslims from Peshawar fleeing to India  ......... The reason why this causes me some discomfort is because it makes it sound like India
is a Hindu country and not a secular country"

That is confusing since you had written prior to it " Afghan Muslims who continue to flee the same Taliban and continue to pour into India"

Perhaps the point you were trying to make is that there is a bias in India against "Muslim" Refugees.

Even in the absence of data, purely on an anecdotal or on your "I feel" basis I would not be surprised if it is true. It should not surprise you either. It is only to be expected.

Two factors that certainly would contribute to any such attitude towards Muslim Refugees are:

- The partitioning of India and Pakistan being carved out for Muslims. It should not be difficult to appreciate that in the minds of many Indians it was an abuse of Bharat and that Islam (read Muslims) having been made welcome in Bharat ended up stealing part of Bharat. One need not agree or disagree with such attitudes or argue over interpretations or challenge them on the basis of precedential history. Such attitudes exist. "Now that Muslims have their own land let them stay there (or even) leave India and go there"

- The second factor is that the manner in which Islam has been propagated and is still being propagated combined with actions in the name of Islam do not make Muslims the most favoured people that would be welcomed with open arms in any part of the world. Muslims are suspect. One could argue about it and argue over it but that does not change the current reality of the attitude towards Muslims. Ironically Muslims are even suspect in the eyes of other Muslims (obvious references). 

That still leaves the question "Is India secular?". How can one answer that.

In any country the Constitution is the Ideal. It is the Vision Document. It is the Mission Statement. Nothing in the Constitution of India comes readily to my mind that would suggest that India is not a secular country. On the contrary we are all familiar with the whine that there is 'selective secularism' in India that favours the minorities (read Muslims as the target).

Agreed that actual practice may not be very close to the desired Ideal. But I do not think it is very far either.

It would be interesting (especially for you as a journalist) to source some data that might give us some guidelines. We need to find out the numbers of Indian Non-Resident Expatriates in various parts of the world, the tabulation of this data religion wise and additionally  for comparison the religion-wise break-up of those who have surrendered their Indian Citizenship.

My observations and anecdotal experiences (of over 20 years) suggest to me that from amongst those who surrender their Indian Citizenship, Muslims are the lowest percentage-wise (of those who have lived as Non-Resident expatriates). Christians I would reckon are the the highest percentage-wise.

Even if this is not correct, there is no significantly noticeable incidence of Indian Muslims surrendering their citizenship in percentages far out-stripping others.

I will recognise here that the appropriate educational qualifications make it easier for Non-Muslims (who are generally better educated) to emigrate to countries like Australia, New Zealand, Canada where you can 'buy' citizenship. I could not swear by it though given that the Kerala Muslim is as educated as the Kerala Hindu, the Andhra Muslim is as educated or uneducated as the Andhra Hindu and the Punjabi Hindu (predominantly unskilled and semi-skilled labour is quite uneducated) 

There are Indian Muslim NRIs who are humongously rich, who could emigrate with not just family and clan but complete villages  and yet there is not one such example known to me.

Interestingly, from amongst the Muslim NRIs, who do emigrate to other countries, it would only be the rarest of rare cases who shifts to Pakistan. (Generally the exceptions are those who get married to Pakistanis and have no choice.)

Somewhere in all of that, to some degree, might be the answer to "Is India secular?"  One could also ask the Bangladeshi Muslims who 'pour' into India.

I cannot help asking you a question. Dont you think that there is a hypocrisy inherent in someone who is concerned about the 'secular' credentials of India and simultaneously is supportive of or sympathetic towards the "Azaadi" movement in Kashmir which when shorn of the deceitful lies describing it as being elsewise is simply an Islamic Movement?

I would ask a similar question of those who pontificate philosophy denigrating Nation States (criticizing India although India is not a Nation State) and at the same time support or are sympathetic towards the creation of a Nation State (Islamic) under the Kashmir "Azaadi" Movement. 

Kshmendra     

--- On Tue, 3/17/09, Shivam V <lists at shivamvij.com> wrote:

From: Shivam V <lists at shivamvij.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Hindu families in Pakistan feel scared, India grants Visa
To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com
Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 1:01 AM

Dear Kshmendra,

Thanks for posting this and bringing our attention to it. However,
there is nothing unusual about it. Pakistani Hindu migration to India
continues on an almost daily basis. I once did a story on them. I went
to the Bhati mines area of Chattarpur in Delhi and met a family of 11
that had arrived just two days ago. There are at least a hundred
thousand Pakistani Hindus in Rajasthan, and with some leadership and
organisation some of them have been getting Indian citizenship. This
shows how the "long" Partition "continues" in the most
literal sense
of the word "continues". This is just like the Partition continues
over the unsettled dispute over the Kashmir Valley and the constant,
complaining allegations about "Bangaldeshis" who come to India, the
corresponding issues of "vote bank politics" and them 'snatching
away'
jobs from Bihari labourers.

Firstly, the situtaion of the Pakistani Hindu refugees in India is
very bad. Indian red tape deals with them in the most insensitive
manner, makes sure that not only their visas but also passports
expire, and then expects them to have the money to get new passports
from the Pakistan High Commission, which is most uncooprative. So,
like most refugees, they just disappear in the mass of the
'unorganised sector' of the Indian economy, away from the watchful
eyes of an Indian state that couldn't care less. Most Pakistani Hindu
refugees are from Sindh as another posting on this list shows.

At the same time, being Hindus they still have it much easier than,
say the Afghan Muslims who continue to flee the same Taliban and
continue to pour into India and work in the same unorganised sector.
There is of course no question of Muslims from Peshawar fleeing to
India despite India having more Muslims than Pakistan. The reason why
this causes me some discomfort is because it makes it sound like India
is a Hindu country and not a secular country that treats all refugees
equally.

This discrimination exists within internally displaced refugees in
India as Shuddhabrata Sengupta once showed on this list.

If you're Tibetan you're god; if you're Bangladeshi Hindu
you're just
Hindu and thus Indian; if you're Afghan Sikh you will easily get
Indian citizenship; if you're Sri Lankan Tamil you will live in
abominable conditions in refugee camps and the Tamilians will play
politics in your name but never do anything for your plight.

I think it is important that India passes a uniform national refugee
law and policy and shows compassion towards refugees from all parts of
the world equally.

I hope you agree with me.

best
shivam

On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Versions of the news item reproduced below (from PunjabNewsline) have also
appeared in:
>
> - ZEENEWS "Pak Hindu families seekl India citizenship"
>      http://international.zeenews.com/inner1.asp?aid=203968&sid=HEL
>
> - DAWN "Fata’s 35 Hindus migrate to India"
>     
 http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn%20Content%20Library/dawn/news/pakistan/fatas-35-hindus-migrate-to-india--bi
>
> Kshmendra
>
>
> "Hindu families in Pakistan feel scared, India grants Visa"
> JAGMOHAN SINGH
> Saturday, 07 March 2009
>
> AMRITSAR: Indian Government has granted one year visa to 35 Hindu migrants
from Pakistan who faced threat to their lives in Pakistan, particularly in
tribal areas. The group including 16 men, 16 females and three children had
crossed over to india few days back.
>
> The Pak Hindus narrated their woes to Indian authorities. They carried the
nightmare, experienced Immediately after they went to Delhi to get extension in
visa and permission to stay in Amritsar. All the families arrived in Amritsar on
Saturday after obtaining visa for one year.
>
> Jagdish Sharma resident of tribal area near Peshawar in Pakistan said,
“We were living in Pakistan under severe fear psychosis due to the domination
of strong group of Taliban people who are running parallel Government. In such
circumstances, Hindus and Sikh families were not safe, especially our female
members. We preferred to migrate in India, at least here in India we can breathe
out with peace and calm mind since our families are safe in India”.
>
> Adding further he said, “We strongly urge the Government of India to
allow us stay here in India permanently, since we don’t want to go back in the
hellish atmosphere where there is no life security”.
>
> Jagdish Sharma said, “All the 35 members of four Hindu families would
never prefer to return to Pakistan. Now we have intention to settle here
permanently and expect that Government of India would never disappoint the
Pakistan based Hindus who arrived here after being plundered in Pakistan”.
>
> Hardwari Lal resident of Orkzai nearly 180 kilometers from Peshawar said,
“I was running my grocery shop there which was forcibly took over by the
fundamentalist people who also took possession of our entire property. Even Sikh
Gurdwara (Sikh shrine) as well as Hindu Temples were not safe, since none of the
priest of respective religions dare to stay there for required necessary ritual
daily prayers. Pakistan Government has appointed local executive magistrates as
a care taker for religious shrines in the tribal area of Pakistan”.
>
> Hardwari said, “We strongly urge the Government of India to do the
needful for us so that we could settle down in India and could reestablish our
business here as there is no chance for us to go back to Pakistan”.
>
> Rekha a female migrant from Peshawar said, “ We have heaved sigh of
relief while reaching on Indian territory, since every morning we were observing
close encounter to death as life is highly unsecured. My parents were always
worried about me and my brothers due to domination of fundamentalist people.
Being a girl I Never went out of my house and remained confined with in the four
walls of our house. I never got privilege to obtain education, since girls were
not allowed to attend school in the tribal area of Pakistan”.
>
> Adding further Rekha said, “There was no life in the tribal area of
Pakistan, as there was no liberty for   women to move out, if gets chance only
in Burqa (clad) while covering face and body with black gown. In Pakistan
Taliban considers Hindu community very meek and feeble. Numerous Hindu families
still were languishing in the tribal area of Pakistan as unable to get visa for
India which they were facing acute hardship. Since for visa everybody has to
appear before the Indian High Commission and for women it is difficult to come
out from house to move out from the tribal area”, she quipped.
>
> http://www.punjabnewsline.com/content/view/15562/40/
>
>
>
>
>
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