[Reader-list] The Islamic Flag of Indian Muslims

bipin aliens at dataone.in
Wed May 6 14:03:31 IST 2009 

Dear Anupam,

No time but giving very brief answer.

I have not written anything against any particular community. I have never 
wrote anything against Muslim in my statement. They are also having equal 
right and there is no question of condemning them. I am against the Indians 
Includes all) behaving against the interest of country not respecting its 
sovereignty, nationality, support direct/indirect support to terrorism and 
indiscipline in behavior.

thanks
Bipin

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "anupam chakravartty" <c.anupam at gmail.com>
To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Islamic Flag of Indian Muslims


> Dear Bipin,
>
> Before discussing me in this condescending, at least reply to my mails. I
> had posed number questions in this thread as well as several. WHERE ARE 
> YOUR
> ANSWERS?
>
> please do not talk about dharma. and you are no one to discuss the 
> condition
> of minority, when you selectively preach about hindutva.
>
> i am as opposed to the established secular lobby, as opposed to 
> favourtism.
> But then in my opposition, am i supposed to make blanket assertions about 
> a
> whole community or a whole society? if i am not not blaming the whole 
> hindu
> community for producing a sadhvi pragya, how do you get the right to 
> discuss
> muslims in this reader's list? all discussions begin with what muslims 
> ought
> to do and what not. that they should just pay obeisance to one national 
> flag
> and anthem as if all hindus pay their tributes when national anthem.
> starting a topic here is so goddamn easy. it is so comfortable for you to
> say things against a particular community, that too so easily. and bipin,
> now you have to audacity to say that i am under influence of some people. 
> i
> think to put in my crass hindi: *tumhari jal gayee hai. *
> **
> let me tell you one last thing. this act of commodify a religion, making
> blanket statements about all its participants must stop for once and for
> all.
>
> -anupam
>
> **
> On 5/6/09, bipin <aliens at dataone.in> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Chanchal,
>>
>> You are right. So called secular were never interested in improving the
>> standard of living of minority, but they want to play with them only for
>> their vote bank and person like Anupam comes under influence of them.
>>
>> In India, I think, who speak for or create show to speak for minority is
>> secular and who speak for majority is communal. This is the definition of
>> secularism prevailing in India.
>>
>>
>> The real secularism is to give equal respect and treatment to all the
>> religions (dharma).
>>
>>
>>
>> But, what is religion or what is Dharma? It is very complicated question.
>>
>>
>> The real religion or dharma is the work you do honestly and sincerely
>> allotted to you. For Ex. You have to take care of your new born child and
>> make him/her self sufficient by giving good culture, education, 
>> discipline,
>> fighting spirit etc. Instead of this if you remain in the activities like
>> prayer in temples/mosque and devote the time after god only is not the 
>> real
>> dharma you are adopting. You carry on your duty sincerely and honestly 
>> you
>> have to do at the different stages of life is the real dharma or 
>> religion.
>>
>>
>> thanks
>> BIPIN
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "chanchal malviya" <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
>> To: "anupam chakravartty" <c.anupam at gmail.com>; "sarai list" <
>> reader-list at sarai.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 12:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Islamic Flag of Indian Muslims
>>
>>
>> > Dear Anupam,
>> >
>> > You are conflicting your own sentence...   You said, national anthem is
>> sung when you feel for your country...
>> > The direct meaning of this sentence is 'One will not sing the National
>> Anthem if he do not feel for the Country'
>> >
>> > There is no question of force.... I never said that any anti-national
>> should be forced to sing the Anthem... not all..
>> >
>> > If Saffron is my color... let me understand what is your color.... 
>> > Why
>> was the Flag of India not completely white... If Saffron color is wrong, 
>> why
>> it is there in the Flag at all... I wonder if you have ever told to the
>> Terrorist that they have Greenized websites... I am sure you have never 
>> told
>> so...
>> >
>> > Because you do not have answers to the Saffrons, whose area of 
>> > operation
>> are within their own country... and they have come up as powers to 
>> respond
>> to them who are harming Humanity in India (eg Conversion program of
>> Christian by buying through money and for humanitarian reason, 
>> infiltration
>> of Crores of Bangladeshis, etc.).. Unfortunately, Saffrons has to do this
>> because people like you supports them (as Congress, CPIM dos)...  And
>> fighting for the protection is Crime and rhetoric for you... doesn't
>> matter....
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> > From: anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>
>> > To: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2009 10:54:29 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Islamic Flag of Indian Muslims
>> >
>> > dear chanchal
>> >
>> > national anthem is sung when you feel for your country. not out of 
>> > force.
>> > please spare the national anthem at least from your rhetoric that 
>> > sounds
>> > like ones that you get to read in the saffronised websites.
>> >
>> > at least be geniune in your critique. mugging up points from a 
>> > propaganda
>> > site would not really help.
>> >
>> > regards
>> >
>> > anupam
>> >
>> >
>> > On 5/6/09, chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Indian Muslims are those whose forefathers betrayed with their own 
>> >> base
>> >> foundation Hinduism - either out of fear or lust.
>> >> Indian Muslims are those who historically didn't play a major role in
>> >> Indian Independence, and rather took lead in Khilafat with Gandhi (the
>> >> apostole of peace) to massacre over 10,000 Hindus in the name of 
>> >> God...
>> >> Indian Muslims are those who established a thick line in 1947 that 
>> >> they
>> >> cannot live with Hindus who unfortunately happens to be their own
>> ancestral
>> >> brothers...
>> >> India Muslims now have loosed their credibility of being a part of
>> >> Nationalist attitude by publicly denying to accept National Anthem,
>> National
>> >> Song and denying Bharat as maata... when these things should have
>> nothing to
>> >> take with Hindus... but now slogans like 'Bharat maata ki Jai', 'Jana
>> gana
>> >> mana', 'vande maatram'... are all part of only Hindu culture...
>> >> Indian Muslims are now a partners of Terrorism, and by and large
>> declared
>> >> Terrorism... most of their leaders shout publicly that every Muslim
>> should
>> >> be a terrorist with some logical background that terrorism should be 
>> >> for
>> >> non-believers often purified through management language...
>> >> Indian Muslims or any Muslim in this world (barring exceptions - 1 to 
>> >> 2
>> %
>> >> of the population), has to re-establish their credibility that they 
>> >> are
>> >> humans and worshipers of humanity first before unknown, unseen God who
>> >> according to them hates, prepares fire of hell, prepared heaven with
>> houris
>> >> and virgins, asks people to murder...
>> >>
>> >> WHO WILL SOLVE THIS IGNORANCE OF HATRED IN THE NAME OF GOD - ONLY
>> HINDUS...
>> >> That is the reason Muslims have existed from over thousand years in
>> India,
>> >> and Hindus and others have been eliminated from Islamic lands...
>> >> Historically proven, demography of today proves this...
>> >>
>> >> One should not enforce their own intolerance upon Hindus in the name 
>> >> of
>> >> Babri and Gujarat Riots... They must go back into 1000 years of 
>> >> History
>> >> which created Babri.. Kashmir.. and Godhra...  One must talk of CAUSE
>> and
>> >> not EFFECT alone... The Effect on Hindus are much deeper than anything
>> else
>> >> in this world...
>> >>
>> >> The well integrated four Varnas - popularly known as Aryas - were
>> divided
>> >> and remains divided because of Invasion and Western Politics still
>> ruling
>> >> this nation...
>> >> The ever free women of India were put under 'Ghunghat' for ever to 
>> >> hide
>> >> their face from the Islamic looters... Brahmins had to impose child
>> marriage
>> >> among Hindus because their girls were picked away at an early age in 
>> >> the
>> >> name of 'Virgin' given by God to Islamic rapers... British took
>> advantage of
>> >> this and teached the whole population that these are the raw culture 
>> >> of
>> >> Hinduism...
>> >>
>> >> Unfortunate, the same Best Scientists, Philosophers, Pschologists and
>> all
>> >> failed to defeat Swami Vivekananda who put Hinduism on top of 
>> >> everything
>> on
>> >> their land... Read him, read Hinduism from its scripture (and not from
>> the
>> >> mouth of Dr. Zakir Naik)... and you will know that WORLD LIVES BECAUSE
>> >> HINDUISM IS ALIVE EVEN IN ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY...
>> >>
>> >> A person respecting his parents is Hinduism, A person loyarl to his
>> >> Religous Guru is Hinduism, A person dedicated to his job is Hinduism, 
>> >> A
>> >> person marrying and leading a stable family is Hinduism... A person
>> getting
>> >> spiritual in line with God is Hinduism...
>> >> You may change the books, induce impurity in the name of God in those
>> >> books... but the truth will ever remain... The world exists because of
>> >> Hinduism and the world will exist only as long as Hinduism is alive -
>> >> directly or indirectly....
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ________________________________
>> >> From: M Javed <javedmasoo at gmail.com>
>> >> To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com
>> >> Cc: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2009 5:38:01 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Islamic Flag of Indian Muslims
>> >>
>> >> Dear Kshmendra
>> >>
>> >> Who is an Indian Muslim?
>> >>
>> >> We need to answer this before we can answer your "...should they be
>> >> thinking about using the Islamic flag..."
>> >>
>> >> Javed
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Kshmendra Kaul 
>> >> <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com
>> >
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > QUOTE:
>> >> >
>> >> > It also carried drawings of two white and black flags, the former
>> being
>> >> the main flag of Holy Prophet Muhammad (Peace be Upon Him) and the
>> latter
>> >> his military standard. Even now, black-turbaned TNSM members carry the
>> small
>> >> white and black flags as they walk ahead of Sufi Mohammad. ......
>> UNQUOTE
>> >> >
>> >> > This quote is from an article on Maulana Sufi Mohammad written by
>> >> Rahimullah Yusufzai.
>> >> > http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=175825
>> >> >
>> >> > No green flag. No crescent and star on it.
>> >> >
>> >> > The green flag with the crescent and star on it which is used by
>> Indian
>> >> Muslims has often caused misunderstandings.
>> >> >
>> >> > One recent example has been Simi Garewal talking about Pakistani 
>> >> > Flags
>> >> being flown by Indian Muslims. She apologised later for having 
>> >> mistaken
>> the
>> >> Islamic Flag of the Indian Muslims for the Pakistani Flag.
>> >> >
>> >> > The close resemblance between the 2 flags confused even Anupam
>> >> Chakravartty, who inspite of video coverage from Times Now showing it 
>> >> to
>> be
>> >> a Pakistani Flag, insisted that what was flown in Assam with " sickle
>> (sic)
>> >> and star on green background  is an islamic symbol"
>> >> > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2009-April/018755.html
>> >> >
>> >> > In an earlier mail I had commented:
>> >> >
>> >> > """""" If this is factual, then the question arises for the Indian
>> >> Muslims that should they be thinking about using the Islamic Flag
>> without
>> >> the Crescent and Star so that it does not appear to be close to being
>> the
>> >> flag of Pakistan? """"""
>> >> > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-December/017016.html
>> >> >
>> >> > Just thinking aloud
>> >> >
>> >> > Kshmendra
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _________________________________________
>> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
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>> >> _________________________________________
>> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> >> Critiques & Collaborations
>> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> >> subscribe in the subject header.
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _________________________________________
>> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> >> Critiques & Collaborations
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>> > _________________________________________
>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > Critiques & Collaborations
>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> subscribe in the subject header.
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _________________________________________
>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > Critiques & Collaborations
>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> subscribe in the subject header.
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>> _________________________________________
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>> Critiques & Collaborations
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>> subscribe in the subject header.
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> _________________________________________
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> Critiques & Collaborations
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