[Reader-list] plight of the muslim women and appeasement

Sat May 23 19:38:47 IST 2009

Dear all,
         Do you believe in the effectiveness of such policies? A more fundamental question to ask would be the effects of such a policy. 
A> Does a boy usually marry a girl more educated than him? 
b> What is the average marriage age of Girls, ok Muslim Girls in our country. Even in towns, cities etc., my experience is that after Class 12. What does education mean after that, if one has a kid( no accounts of heroism please!)? 
c> After free education what does a transfer signify? IS it just to increase demand for government education sans adding value?
d> Depends on the answer to b> If education does not create gender equality, is it being used to create varied disparity. The Value mothers add to home as housewifes is being dimminished. So education is now required to even run a dhaba, for tourism or what? UNproductive Education!

Thus I conclude that this process will evebtually substitute & justify various forms of disparities, and except a transfer of Income, in effect is half-hearted. I have seen school going children working to substitute Income. Will transfers stop it? NO. Then what are the Desired effects? Sad that some people do not see why the Swan presents food to the jackal in a certain way!

________________________________
From: A.K. Malik <akmalik45 at yahoo.com>
To: anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>
Cc: Sarai List <reader-list at sarai.net>
Sent: Friday, 22 May, 2009 11:13:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] plight of the muslim women and appeasement

Dear Mr Chakravartty,
                    Since the info has been more or less a first hand from the Schools,my only objection had been the effect of such moves on the tender minds of kid girls.You can't make a girl of 10-12 years understand why a muslim girl whose parents are well-off gets Rs 300 and she whose parents hardly able to get even full food for the day doesn't get it.If the money is to be paid, let it be paid to all girl students irrespective of caste creed and religion or it must be based on economic criterion again irrespective of caste and creed as also of religion.
I have even a problem with the Scheme to be named with a MUslim name as also I oftenly find problem with all SC/STs places being named Gandhi/Ambedkar Sadans etc and never by Jawahar/Patel or similar ones.

(A.K.MALIK)

--- On Wed, 5/20/09, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] plight of the muslim women and appeasement
> To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 4:13 PM
> Dear Mr Malik,
> 
> 
> 
> Clarifications first:
> 
> 
> 
> The funds for the education and employment for the backward
> minorities would
> be made available through GOI. Maulana Azad Trust’s
> corpus has been
> increased to Rs 500 crores. (
> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/education-jobs-plan-panel-focus-for-muslim-uplift/19044/0
> )
> 
> 
> 
> To reason for reservation in any form, I would say that it
> is a policy of
> involving more and more people in decision-making process
> so that a
> composite form of governance can be created. If
> reservations mean benefits
> it also means additional responsibility. Prosperity, which
> in this case, is
> a derivative of the function of reservation, actually has
> an added baggage
> of roles, especially in India. These roles are to be
> fulfilled by those who
> avail what we call reservation as these roles traditionally
> were performed
> by just one set of people who are endowed with economic
> power with and
> therefore they were also expected to have a say in the
> functioning of the
> government and taking large scale policy decision.
> 
> 
> 
> I might be contradicting myself, but the reservations are
> not just about
> economic prosperity. It is a means of social empowerment
> too. Infact social
> empowerment is the basis for the reservations in India.
> While economic
> prosperity is a result of individual strengths, social
> prosperity and
> recognition is a form of collective strength. It is not the
> case that social
> prosperity could be gained only through economic gains, but
> vice versa – as
> in you need an atmosphere without any discrimination than
> only you can work
> better.
> 
> 
> 
> In case of Muslims, more than the economic disparity
> between the rich and
> the poor, it is social relevance of the community that
> needs to be addressed
> from within the community. Although reforms in Muslims have
> to intrinsic and
> inclusive, it cannot be seen in the light of the reform
> movements in other
> religions. Therefore, there is such an impetus on resolving
> the issues of
> education and employment especially in case of the Muslim
> girls.
> 
> 
> 
> Like you have pointed out that extra Rs 300 given to the
> Muslim girls, I
> take this opportunity to point towards 14 per cent
> reservation for Brahmins
> and other upper castes (
> http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2514/stories/20080718251403300.htm)
> that
> have been clearly called economically backward upper
> castes, even though the
> most backward people would be tribals in Banswada
> district.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks anupam
> 
> 
> On 5/20/09, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Malik jee
> >
> > If you wish to say that benefits like reservation must
> be based on economic
> > criteria, to quite a substantial extent (leaving aside
> SC and ST), I would
> > agree, as it is not going to help if only the affluent
> among the upper
> > castes, the backward castes or the Muslims or other
> minorities are getting
> > admissions and posts based on reservations. It's the
> poor and the
> > downtrodden among these communities which require
> reservation.
> >
> > However, when we do provide such reservation, then we
> have to ensure that
> > these people have the capacity to get absorbed through
> such reservations,
> > otherwise it's going to be of no use. For example, if
> the poor can't avail
> > of education even upto 10th std, then what is the use
> of providing them
> > reservation in IIT's and IIM's ? Therefore, it's time
> we debate upon the
> > idea of reservation to bring about benefits to
> different communities. The
> > same argument also extends for SC's and ST's.
> >
> > At the same time, one must not forget that one of the
> benefits of
> > introducing reservation was to increase national
> unity, and whether one
> > likes it or not, this is something which can't be
> debated. If there would
> > have been no reservation for SC's and ST's too, these
> would also have felt
> > useless and would have joined themselves to causes
> which indulge in violence
> > (at least a part have done so through Naxalism), and I
> feel the Naxalite
> > problem may have been greater, along with violence due
> to caste
> > discrimination and casteism.
> >
> > I have no problems with reservation as a move, it's
> just that I accept your
> > point that reservation for any caste or religion or
> community must be
> > debated, and the previous effects of reservation must
> be studied while
> > undertaking any new reservations to ensure that these
> actually turn
> > effective. And if that means reservation for poor
> across all castes and
> > communities has to be provided, so be it.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Rakesh
> >
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