[Reader-list] The Naxalites overreached

S. Jabbar sonia.jabbar at gmail.com
Thu Apr 8 11:27:30 IST 2010


Dear Pawan,

Though I have no sympathy for the Naxals there is something absolutely
idiotic in the way force is being used in so-called Maoist-infested areas.
As America learned to its great dismay in the 60's and 70's there is no
out-gunning involved in guerilla insurgencies-- esp in jungles-- that use
superior knowledge of terrain, superior intelligence networks, and superior
logistical support to successfully oppose a brute force that has much
greater fire-power.

It is not a question of 'for us' and 'against us' as you suggest.  The buck
as Mr. Chidambram, taunted the Bengal CM the other day, actually stops with
him and he should have the grace to admit that his hyper-macho, Rambo
strategy is not paying off.  It is not just me or so-called  Maoist
'sympathizers' who are saying so but a host of other 'experts' in the field
who can hardly be labeled as pacifists.  Among them are the chief of the
Indian army, the air force chief, KPS Gill and even Ajit Jogi, who feels
that the intelligence failure leading to the deaths of 76 personnel had to
do with the deep alienation caused in the local population by the bullying
excesses of the Salwa Judum.  To fight a guerrilla insurgency you need the
support of the local population, as I'm sure you fully know from the Kashmir
experience.  And what is in full evidence, the state clearly lacks it.

That Chidambram has used the word 'war' is shocking and intemperate.  The
first question really to be asked is why this CRPF company was 25 km from
their base camp?  Who is planning and executing this 'war?' These are the
first people who ought to be hauled up.  As the father of one of the CRPF
men replied when asked whether he was proud his son had died, why were they
sent without adequate intelligence or training?

Our senior politicians have, since the 1962 border war with the Chinese,
categorically refused to be held accountable for decisions leading to the
deaths of soldiers.  Put up a few memorials and be done with it, seems to be
the attitude--and keep howling loudly about the perfidy of the enemy.  India
has many more men to replace the 76 who died, they will keep coming because
they are too poor to have a choice.  Some of the profiles of the soldiers
showed families that lived in abject poverty.  One man had 10 people
dependent on his income.

What is so shameful about this is that recent finding on hunger show about
300 million people living under $1 or Rs.45 a day.  This includes spending
on food, shelter and health.  If you raised the bar to $2 or Rs.90, the
population living below the poverty line rises to 800 million people or 80%
of India's population.  If there is a war to be fought, it seems to me, this
is where it ought to start, not in the forests of Dantewada.


> From: Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 18:17:23 +0530
> To: anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>
> Cc: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Naxalites overreached
> 
> Dear Anupam Ji ,

NamaskAr

While as I do not disagree that these naxalites
> are our own people ,
we should also remember that majority of them have become
> criminals.

There are other people too , who have been victim of state
> policies
etc etc ....but they haven't picked up the arms and go ahead
> beheading
people and killing our own policemen.

It is sad that if a brute
> force would be used by the state , but i
guess they havent been left with much
> options.

I hope and pray , that naxalites realize that they would carry
> much
more guilt , of many more deaths , orphans , widows and
> homeless
people.

The naxalites have already made thousands of poor people
> homeless ,
especially in Orissa.

They are nothing but cowards.

Pawan





On
> Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 6:06 PM, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Pawan,
>
> your attempts to invigorate the readers by saying "either you are
> with
> it or against it', you have with a possibility of a another vietnam
> to
> be waged in india on its very own people by the government. it is very
>
> comfortable for you to choose this stand because you with your pithy
> sayings
> know it very well that if anyone from this list comments on
> your post, it
> means people are reading about your ideas and you have
> successfully peddled
> them to a platform.
>
> let us see who you have excluded from this debate. you
> exclude the
> families by readily declaring them as "martyrs" (isnt it
> shameful that
> these men who could have worked to built these areas in the
> heart of
> india are brutally killed because another set of people do not want
> to
> come with guns? i know i shouldn't be asking these questions to you as
>
> it was an administrative decision to send such a large number of
> personnel
> into area which is already a stronghold) because they fought
> ' for/on your
> side'. it also excludes the staff of the hospital which
> worked for 48 hours
> on each and every corpse to send it to their
> homes, hoping that they never
> have to see a day like this again. you
> are excluding the independent opinion
> by always labelling it as maoist
> sympathisers, which could form as a bridge
> for negotiations at a later
> stage. for your information, it was stated by
> the senior police
> official working in that area, that the so-called
> liberated zone is
> largely uninhabited zone, so does it mean that security
> forces were
> planning to 'invade' the zone? at the cost of all these lives
> which
> have been lost despite the home minister making tall claims
> Dantewada
> and Gadhchiroli will be naxal free. so is this the approach? i
> think
> operation green hunt is a failure. the home ministry should admit
> that
> green hunt is a failure and use other approaches to negotiate
> peace.
>
> guess who you are including in this argument ...a band of young
> men
> and women who have probably exhausted all means of negotiating with
>
> all forms of governance and are now nothing but waiting to kill anyone
> that
> comes their way because it has been stated that Indian governance
> massively
> failed in its interventions. you are also including those
> mining companies
> who want to become mai-baap of indigenous
> communities. a few stakeholders
> who do not know whose line to toe, is
> it mao or marx or birsa munda or some
> politically correct arm chair
> intellectual...
>
> i am afraid but if this is
> how you perceive governance than a lot of
> people who are opposed to violence
> are in grave danger from people
> like you who just want to perpetuate
> conflicts.
>
> kindly think before you launch such statements sir. these so
> called
> maoists are people from own country who have lost faith. your faith
> in
> the system has absolutely no correlation with someone's else belief in
>
> the same system. so you cannot call for a iron hand treatment on
> anyone you
> feel like because the tv and the newspapers screamed
> headlines, rather give
> an alternative. the same mistakes that american
> government cannot be
> committed by india.
>
> -anupam
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 4:45 PM,
> Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear Shuddha ,
>>
>> What is
> good about your politics which does not come out in straight
>> condemnation
> of the massacre by the Maoist without mincing words.
>>
>> This is a war
> ...you are either with it or against it.
>>
>> Pawan
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010
> at 4:15 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:
>>> Dear all,
>>>
> Whenever I hear of 'iron fists', I reach for my 'velevet glove'. : ).
>>> I
> strongly condemn any move to call for 'iron fist' treatment of anyone who>>>
> is not a combatant.  Let me elaborate.
>>> I intensely dislike, and am opposed
> to the politics of Pawan Durani and some
>>> of his friends on this list. I
> think their agendas are dangerous and
>>> divisive. But I do not think that
> people should be treated with 'iron fists'
>>> merely for holding and
> expressing an opinion, no matter how objectionable
>>> that opinion may be. It
> is a crime to set off an IED or a mine or kill
>>> someone, but it is not a
> crime to call for an understanding of the
>>> motivations of those that do, or
> even to say that these acts of violence are
>>> part of a 'just war'. And the
> crucial difference between these two lines of
>>> action is the very basis on
> which an open society is built and sustained.
>>> But, just as, if the Maoists
> were to start targetting pro-establishment
>>> journalists instead of
> combatants, they would be violating a fundamental
>>> code of how armed
> conflict ought to be conducted, so too, when people call
>>> for 'targeting'
> Maoist sympathizers along with combatants, as if the realm
>>> of discourse
> and opinions were a battlefield where punitive and military
>>> measures can
> and ought to be taken, they are pointing us in the direction of
>>> a closed,
> authoritarian society - where all of society is a prison camp.
>>> Where
> people are prosecuted not on the grounds of what they do, but on the
>>>
> grounds of what they think, or believe, or what other people think they
>>>
> think.
>>> The taking of human life is never something we need to celebrate.
> The deaths
>>> of the more than 75 people in an ambush is not something that
> anyone can
>>> exult over. But, to be fair, if this party, which was on an
> 'area domination
>>> exercise' came across a squad of Maoists who happened to
> be less prepared
>>> than them, the killed would have been the killers. These
> two forces are at
>>> war, and in a war, combatants are not expected to shoot
> to kill, not to hold
>>> their fire.
>>> As is evident from what I have
> written, much of which has appeared here
>>> earlier, I have little sympathy
> for the politics of the Maoists. But I
>>> strongly feel that we should also
> think about the culpability of those who
>>> are pushing the CRPF jawans into
> a war to defend the interests of rapacious
>>> mining companies. They are just
> as responsible for these deaths as those who
>>> planted the mines or pulled
> the triggers, just as the American presidents
>>> who sent young American men
> into war in Vietnam were equally responsible for
>>> their deaths, as were the
> Vietcong. The soldiers who are pushed into the
>>> frontline of any war are
> the victims of the decisions made by the commanders
>>> of two armies, their
> own, as well as of their opponents.
>>> And frankly, if , the story had turned
> the other way around, if 75 Maoists
>>> were killed in a CRPF ambush, those
> who are asking for 'iron fists' to crush
>>> Maoists and their sympathisers
> today would be celebrating. Arnab Goswamy
>>> would be singing an aria.
>>> I
> see a large casualty figure as an occasion to mourn, to reflect on what is
>>>
> making the violence happen, not as a reason to call for authoritarian
>>>
> measures.  If, we feel strongly about the toll that this war is taking, we
>>>
> should be feeling just as strongly, regardless of which side the
> casualties
>>> are on.
>>> I watched a hysterical Arnab Goswami go ballistic
> last night on television,
>>> asking for measures that will 'wipe out' the
> menace, that will tackle
>>> 'sympathizers'. He kept asking two of his
> panelists whom he had  decided
>>> were Maoist sympathisers, despite at least
> one of them disagreeing with that
>>> appelation, whether they were 'with the
> Indian people' or 'against' them.
>>> Now, if you are a Maoist, you will
> automatically reply that killing the
>>> armed police and militaries of the
> Indian state automatically proves that
>>> you are with the Indian people,
> since the state is the Indian state, in
>>> their view, is the monster
> oppressing the Indian people. In this case, both
>>> the CRPF officers who
> send their jawans into be slaughtered, as well as the
>>> Maoists commanders
> who order the slaughter, act in the name of the same
>>> 'Indian people'. Both
> use the language of 'wiping off' the opposition. Both
>>> seem to need
> massacres to justify their very existence. The 'indian people'
>>> must be
> truly bloodthirsty if so much blood is being shed in its name by
>>> opposite
> forces in an escalating war
>>>  I do not recall this intensity of
> condemnation during instances where
>>> massacres in 'Naxal' affected regions
> have happened earlier (with a
>>> difference in the protagonists of the
> massacres) say in Bihar, at Laxmanpur
>>> Bathe, or at Arwal, or Mianpur,
> where upper caste / landlord militias with
>>> the tacit backing of the police
> slaughtered peasant activists (Arwal, 24
>>> people died in 1986, Laxmanpur
> Bathe, 58 people died in 1997, Mianpur, 35
>>> people died in 2001). Do the
> hackles of our 'patriots' rise more when
>>> Maoists or Naxals are doing the
> killing than when peasants or tribals are
>>> killed by upper caste militias,
> outfits like the Salwa Judum or the state's
>>> police and paramilitary
> forces.
>>> If you look at the table of casualties in the South Asian
> Terrorism Portal
>>> for casualties in Naxal affected regions in Bihar for the
> period between
>>> 1976 and 2001, for instance, you can see clearly that 86 or
> so massacres and
>>> incidents of violence were cased by a combination of
> upper caste militias
>>> and the state police.
>>>
>>> This is the
> overwhelming majority of incidents. But I do not recall anyone
>>> having the
> gall to say on prime time television that the upper/landed caste
>>> militias
> or the Bihar State police and their sympathizers should be 'wiped
>>> out' or
> that their 'sympathizers' (who include activists of every single
>>>
> mainstream political party in India) should be treated with an 'iron
> fist'.
>>> 
> http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/terroristoutfits/massacres.htm
>
> >> Is this not a case of one standard for 'Maoists' and their actual
> and/or
>>> supposed sympathizers, and quite another for everyone else ?
>>>
> best
>>> Shuddha
>>>
>>> On 07-Apr-10, at 2:22 PM, Pawan Durani wrote:
>>>
>>>
> It's high time that not only Maosists , but their supporters are
>>> handled
> with iron fist.
>>> Regards
>>> Pawan
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 1:55 PM,
> Asit asitreds <asitredsalute at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> what about the
> voilence in gujrat bhagalpur etc which have killed hundred
>>> times more
> people than in dantewada
>>>  what about tens of thousands of noncobatant
> civilan population killed by
>>> security forces in northeast kashmir and
> punjab
>>> asit
>>>
>>> On 4/6/10, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>>
>>> Šand committed a strategic mistake at Dantewada
>>>
>>> The
> reason why Naxalites have been able to sustain their insurgency
>>> for so
> long is due to three main reasons: the absence or failure of
>>> governance;
> the romanticism and propaganda of their overground
>>> sympathisers; and,
> finally, due to the relatively subliminal nature of
>>> their violence.
>>> To
> the extent that their violence was distributed in space and time
>>> they
> could slip in and out of the public mind, pursue on-and-off talks
>>> with
> state governments and generally avoid provoking the government
>>> into
> hitting back hard. Over the last five years Naxalites have
>>> violently
> expanded the geographical spread of their extortion and
>>> protection
> rackets‹yet, the violence in any given place and time has
>>> been below a
> certain threshold. That threshold itself is high for a
>>> number of reasons,
> including efforts by their sympathisers to
>>> romanticise their violence,
> spectacular terrorist attacks by jihadi
>>> groups and due to the remoteness
> of the areas of their operations.
>>> This allowed Naxalites to get away with
> murder. A lot of times. In a
>>> lot of places. Literally.
>>> But killing 73
> out of 80 (or 120) CRPF and police personnel in a short
>>> span of time in a
> single battle is no longer subliminal violence. In
>>> all likelihood the
> Naxalites have crossed a threshold‹this incident is
>>> likely to stay much
> longer in the public mind and increase the
>>> pressure on politicians to
> tackle the Naxalite threat with greater
>>> resolve. Also, given that it has
> also become an issue of P
>>> Chidambaram¹s‹and hence the UPA
> government¹s‹reputation, the gloves
>>> are likely to come off in the coming
> weeks.
>>> There¹s a chance that India¹s psychological threshold is even
> higher.
>>> But it is more likely that the Naxalites have overreached.
> Perhaps
>>> their leadership has calculated that they are in the next stage
> of
>>> their revolutionary war. If so, that would neither the first nor
> the
>>> only delusion in their minds.
>>>
> http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/2010/04/06/the-naxalites-overreached/
>>>
> _________________________________________
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> _________________________________________
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>>> Shuddhabrata
> Sengupta
>>> The Sarai Programme at CSDS
>>> Raqs Media Collective
>>>
> shuddha at sarai.net
>>> www.sarai.net
>>> www.raqsmediacollective.net
>>>
>>>
>>
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