[Reader-list] Gujarat DCP shoots Muslim inspector twice in mockanti-terror drill

Thu Mar 18 20:38:03 IST 2010

This is how binaries operate. Whatever I am not, is You.

Structuralism only knows binaries. It recognizes structures, not 
individuals. You can either be pro-muslim or anti-muslim, if you want me to 
put this explanation in this context. Whoever is not pro-muslim is 
anti-muslim. So now you know you are not Kshmendra, you represent a 
structure.

For a lot of individuals, 1960s are yet to happen.

Good luck

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kshmendra Kaul" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
To: "anupam chakravartty" <c.anupam at gmail.com>
Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gujarat DCP shoots Muslim inspector twice in 
mockanti-terror drill

> Dear Anupam
>
> You wrote : " will you approach moderators or launch a tirade against me 
> like how you are
> acting with Dan Hussain and Javed?"
>
> Javed? Yes! Dan Hussain? No!
>
> Will you please tell me where I have addressed Dan Hussain or mentioned 
> Dan Hussain or commented upon anything that Dan Hussain wrote?
>
> NOWHERE.
>
> And that is exactly where you go with some of your responses Anupam; 
> NOWHERE.
>
> What does that tell us about you?
>
> That you do not read what you think you are responding to OR that you do 
> not read what you yourself write OR that you are so consumed by bias, 
> prejudice and pre-judgements about people and issues that your brain 
> froths and you get all muddled up.
>
> That is sad since when you are sane, you do write thought-provoking mails.
>
> Kshmendra
>
> anupam chakravartty c.anupam at gmail.com
> Mon Mar 15 19:19:02 IST 2010 "Dont bother to answer if you are intent on 
> giving some convoluted
> justification of your own."
>
> Instead of probing other's intention on this reader's list, you may
> look into you own intentions of writing such things Kshmendra. Who are
> you to tell me not to answer? say i answer in the most convoluted way,
> what will you do? have you been able to something better than reacting
> or answering in the most rotten way for such a long time? will you
> approach moderators or launch a tirade against me like how you are
> acting with Dan Hussain and Javed? that official who was shot was a
> muslim. there are no two versions about it. so kindly, hold your
> horses before you launch a personal tirade against each other. that
> man Saiyyad, who was shot is alive. lets wait for the probe. and if u
> cannot encourage a healthy debate here, then form your own reader's
> lists. why peddle this hatred into this mailing list on every
> occasion?
>
> -anupam
>
>
> --- On Mon, 3/15/10, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gujarat DCP shoots Muslim inspector twice in 
> mock anti-terror drill
> To: "Pawan Durani" <pawan.durani at gmail.com>, "anupam chakravartty" 
> <c.anupam at gmail.com>
> Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 6:53 PM
>
>
> Dear Anupam
>
> A 'fake encounter' is a 'fake encounter', irrespective of a Muslim being a 
> target or a Hindu, as you yourself seem to be suggesting.
>
> Was this incident a 'fake encounter'? Maybe you know something about it 
> that is not public so far.
>
> How do you know what Javed's intention was in posting the article? Did he 
> discuss his intention with you?
>
> Was Javed justified in retaining the Subject-Line highlighting the 
> "Muslimness" of the ATS Inspector?
>
> Was Javed justified in retaining the comment " "Even Muslim police 
> officers are not safe from fake encounters...."?
>
> Dont bother to answer if you are intent on giving some convoluted 
> justification of your own.
>
> Kshmendra
>
>
>
> --- On Mon, 3/15/10, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gujarat DCP shoots Muslim inspector twice in 
> mock anti-terror drill
> To: "Pawan Durani" <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Kshmendra Kaul" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>, "sarai list" 
> <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 6:33 PM
>
>
> What would you call if a Hindu were killed in such a fake encounter? I
> would say even Hindus are not spared in fake encounters in gujarat. I
> can see the fervour with which a bunch hooligans lurking on this list,
> carry out sporadic attacks on Muslim members of the list without ever
> pondering over the issues being discussed here in a pragmatic manner.
> Most of the arguments are extremely racist and I find it disgusting to
> read such. The intention of posting the news item was not for your
> benefit or score a brownie point over a communal battle. It is show
> the mindset with which police forces, that they need to understand
> their roles as watchdogs is what I gather from the news item. I thank
> Javed for posting this. If not for anything else, let there be a
> debate about reforms to be carried in policing.
>
> On 3/15/10, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thank you Kshemendra ,
>>
>> I hope the moderators of SARAI would look into how this forum is misused 
>> .
>>
>> Indeed when we type Gujarat Muslim DCP Muslim inspector the only
>> 'proof' we get is Javed's posting on SARAI.
>>
>> And this is not the first time Javed has done that . I had tried to
>> convince the readers earlier as well .
>>
>> Hope the moderators look into this and prevent misuse of Forum which
>> has members from across the world.
>>
>> @Javed : you need to apologize to this group for your deliberate mischief 
>> .
>>
>> Pawan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 5:46 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Javed very keenly identifies the ATS Inspector as a 'Muslim' and places 
>>> in
>>> the Subject Field " Gujarat DCP shoots Muslim inspector "
>>>
>>> The word "Muslim" is nowhere to be found on the very weblink of the
>>> article as provided by Javed himself.
>>>
>>> Not satisfied with having done so, Javed adds the comment "Even Muslim
>>> police officers are not safe from fake encounters...." (not to be found 
>>> on
>>> the weblink provided by Javed)
>>>
>>> One would have to be quite idiotic to not recognise Javed's intentions 
>>> in
>>> making the incident "communal". Whatever be the actual 'story' behind 
>>> the
>>> incident, as of now, there no reports of it having a "communal"
>>> background.
>>>
>>> It is quite likely that the "Muslimness" of the ATS Inspector will get
>>> mentioned and highlighted in further reporting of the incident and
>>> commentaries on it. There are many Javed's around to do that. But Javed 
>>> of
>>> SARAI "Reader List" will have the honour of being the first one to do 
>>> so.
>>>
>>> This should please the Moderator(s) of SARAI Reader List.
>>>
>>> I just did a string-search for gujarat-dcp-muslim-inspector. It only
>>> throws up Javed's SARAI Reader List mail. Oh Yes! Also a webpage from a
>>> site called coastaldigest.com with obvious ideological leanings
>>>
>>> Kshmendra
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dan Husain dan.ayyaar at gmail.com
>>> Mon Mar 15
>>> Javed's intent, even if to sensationalize the event, is less harmful 
>>> then
>>> actually shooting a man twice for no fault of his. And it is most
>>> important
>>> to tackle the intent of the man with a loaded gun shooting at innocent
>>> people. Whoever that man be. And if he is a functionary of the state 
>>> then
>>> it
>>> becomes even more imperative to tackle it. Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>> Pawan Durani pawan.durani at gmail.com
>>> Mon Mar 15
>>> Dear C.Anupam ,
>>>
>>> Did I say that any line has been said about Modi.
>>>
>>> Would you google this news and check the subject line which has come
>>> in newspapers .
>>>
>>> ATS inspector injured by bullet during mock drill : PTI
>>>
>>> Gujarat DCP shoots cop during mock-drill : Indian Express
>>>
>>> Drill that mocked precautions & exposed inadequacies : Times Of India
>>>
>>> And then you have a subject line in SARAI ,as follows
>>>
>>> Gujarat DCP shoots Muslim inspector twice in mock anti-terror drill :
>>> Reader-List - SARAI
>>>
>>> If you do not understand the intent of Javed's mail, then i regret of
>>> trying to eductae you on his intent.
>>>
>>> No more discussion on this from my side . Those who wish to ignore my
>>> suggestions may continue to do so.
>>>
>>> Remember ...till they come marching to your door.
>>>
>>> Pawan
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Dan Husain <dan.ayyaar at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gujarat DCP shoots Muslim inspector twice in
>>> mock anti-terror drill
>>> To:
>>> Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
>>> Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 3:48 PM
>>>
>>> Dear Pawan:
>>>
>>> I seldom respond on this list. But I think your response is most 
>>> flippant,
>>> insensitive, callous, off the cuff, prejudiced, and most of all 
>>> laughable.
>>> Think of it. It's like a nightmare. You go for a drill, perfectly 
>>> planned
>>> out, everyone presumably knowing their roles, and suddenly you get shot
>>> twice in your stomach. What for? For what reason? Why? The guy was just
>>> doing his job. And he gets shot! Bizarre! Absolute nightmare. This is
>>> outrageous. I am sure no one would like to live this experience. And 
>>> when
>>> there were clear instructions that no arms to be taken in, why was the 
>>> DCP
>>> carrying a loaded gun. And if he was why would he shoot someone that too
>>> twice. My mind belies any accident.
>>>
>>> And I wonder what would turn you so blind that you'd eagerly defend the
>>> wrong too. I don't think anyone will like to be shot at for no fault of
>>> theirs. And yes if proven that the DCP shot at the guy with malice and 
>>> for
>>> his religious identity then Modi is to be blamed because he has actively
>>> encouraged this mindset.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Danish
>>>
>>> PS: Please respond to this mailing list and not to me personally. 
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>> anupam chakravartty c.anupam at gmail.com
>>> Mon Mar 15
>>>
>>> Pawan,
>>>
>>> Not single line has been said against modi or BJP. Why are you
>>> assuming? On what grounds? On the other hand, if these things are not
>>> brought towards the notice of the machinery which is at work, there
>>> will be more such Saiyads dying in this way.
>>>
>>> It is unfortunate that you are diverting the focus of the debate,
>>> which should discuss things about police reforms across the country to
>>> a political issue. You are absolutely wrong about Javed's intention to
>>> post this news item and also using Narendra Modi to make a point here.
>>>
>>> Anupam
>>>
>>>
>>> Pawan Durani pawan.durani at gmail.com
>>> Mon Mar 15
>>>
>>> And what a convenient subject line made aptly for Sarai . This is how
>>> 'Liberals' are used by Javed and others.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Pawan Durani
>>> <pawan.durani at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes Yes .. Let us blame Modi for this.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Javed <javedmasoo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > ‘Sir, don’t... I am not a terrorist,’ pleaded ATS inspector as DCP
>>>> > shot him twice
>>>> >
>>>> > Even Muslim police officers are not safe from fake encounters....
>>>> >
>>>> > Surat: Posted: Sunday , Mar 14, 2010 at 0319 hrs
>>>> >
>>>> > “Sir, don’t... I am not a terrorist.”
>>>> > This is what Gujarat Anti Terrorism Squad (ATS) inspector Shabbirali
>>>> > Saiyed says he had shouted, just before Deputy Commissioner of Police
>>>> > Subhash Trivedi shot him twice in the abdomen from point blank range
>>>> > during the mock anti-terror drill that went haywire at the Surat
>>>> > Airport on February 24.
>>>> >
>>>> > Saiyed still cannot comprehend how and why he was shot by the senior
>>>> > officer. No officer was supposed to carry or use live arms and
>>>> > ammunition. That apart, Saiyed told The Sunday Express that the 
>>>> > entire
>>>> > drill had been meticulously planned, including the exact role each 
>>>> > cop
>>>> > would play. “All the officials in the drill had been briefed
>>>> > thoroughly about the role of each. I was to be only an observer 
>>>> > tasked
>>>> > to find out what mistakes the commandos and other officials commit
>>>> > during rescue operations.”
>>>> >
>>>> > DCP Subhash Trivedi, SP Barot of ATS and a few other officers were
>>>> > tasked to act as doctors and rush to a bus in the parking lot of the
>>>> > airport in which some officials acting as terrorists were holding
>>>> > ‘passengers’ hostage.
>>>> >
>>>> > Saiyed recalled: “Subhash Trivedi rushed to the bus and caught hold 
>>>> > of
>>>> > me tightly, though I was supposed to be only an obeserver. I pleaded,
>>>> > “Sir , don’t... I am not a terrorist, I am the observer.” But he
>>>> > refused to let go of me and we had a scuffle. I was left struggling 
>>>> > to
>>>> > get out of his clutches when he pulled out his service revolver and
>>>> > opened fire, from point blank range. I fell and lost consciousness.”
>>>> >
>>>> > The .38 calibre bullet entered through his stomach and exited. Saiyed
>>>> > is still to recover but is now out of danger.
>>>> >
>>>> > Interestingly, the DCP, according to Saiyed, was not even tasked to
>>>> > take on or grapple with any ‘terrorist’ in the drill, since he was
>>>> > acting as a member of a team of ‘doctors’ at the spot who would only
>>>> > recce the scene to find out how many hostages and terrorists were in
>>>> > the bus. “He was to have only ascertained their numbers to pass on 
>>>> > the
>>>> > information to the others in the actual rescue team, so that they
>>>> > could plan and execute the operation,” according to Inspector Saiyed.
>>>> >
>>>> > Surat police Commisioner Shivanand Jha confirmed it. “Saiyed was
>>>> > deputed as an observer on the spot. He was standing near the entry
>>>> > door of bus. DCP Subhash Trivedi was tasked to act as a doctor to
>>>> > recce the scene and find out how many hostages were being held by how
>>>> > many terrorists, and the weapons they possessed.” The ‘doctor’,
>>>> > apparently, was not expected to carry any weapon, much less a loaded
>>>> > service revolver.
>>>> >
>>>> > So what went horribly wrong? The police claim they have no answers to
>>>> > share, yet. “We are still doing a free and fair investigation. At 
>>>> > this
>>>> > moment it is difficult to come to any conclusion. We have taken the
>>>> > statements of several airport staff who were also present there and
>>>> > statements of several police officials who witnessed the incident,”
>>>> > Jha said.
>>>> >
>>>> > When The Sunday Express contacted Trivedi, he refused to comment.
>>>> >
>>>> > The investigation is being headed by Jha’s deputy and ATS chief Ajay
>>>> > Tomar. A complaint was registered at Umra police station soon after
>>>> > Saiyed was shot while state DGP S S Khandwawala directed Tomar to
>>>> > carry out a departmental inquiry.
>>>> >
>>>> > “After preliminary investigations, we have found that the incident 
>>>> > was
>>>> > an accident and the firing had not been done deliberately. But we are
>>>> > waiting for the final report and the report from ballistic experts
>>>> > before coming to any conclusion,” said Khandwawala. Asked if an FIR
>>>> > would be registered against DCP Trivedi, Khandwawala said: “Let the
>>>> > report come and later, on its basis, we will take further action. 
>>>> > Both
>>>> > the officials are from police department _ they are not some 
>>>> > criminals
>>>> > _ so it is premature to say anything at this juncture.”
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/sir-dont...-i-am-not-a-terrorist-pleaded-ats-inspector-as-dcp-shot-him-twice/590554/0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________
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> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with 
> subscribe in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________
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> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with 
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> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
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