[Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT

Bipin Trivedi aliens at dataone.in
Thu May 13 15:10:21 IST 2010


Thanks Shashi for your consent and input.

-----Original Message-----
From: Shashidhar [mailto:shashidhar at butterfliesindia.org] 
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 11:24 AM
To: 'Bipin Trivedi'; 'sarai-list'
Subject: RE: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT

I remember a comment from soli sorabjee on the television that there was no queue system and he gave an example of Indira Gandhi assassination where the culprit was hanged within  six or seven months of sentencing. He also said that the death sentence was not carried out for a long time after the hanging of Indira Gandhi assassin.

Any way who in the civilised world wants people - civilian and terrorist kind  to be killed in their home land.. turn him over to the land where he came from may be find peace there and be worshipped as a hero..

Shashi

-----Original Message-----
From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Bipin Trivedi
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 11:16 AM
To: sarai-list
Subject: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT

Dear Kshemendra,

You are against the death penalty that is understandable as your personnel view, but why you defend government on the queue system when as such no such law exists. By mentioning both website you tried to convince about the rule is there for queue system. Both the site you mentioned does not mentioned any rule. Our main argument is this only that there is no such rule and one must take decision with their own instinct which is to be execute first. If you ask political/law illiterate person that the man convicted for parliament attack should be handled more seriously with priority. Educated and politically well aware people like you does not understand this is strange thing. But, unnecessarily defend the government for their politically motivated act for the political gain.

Thanks
Bipin



 

-----Original Message-----
From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Kshmendra Kaul
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 6:21 PM
To: A.K. Malik
Cc: Sarai List
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT

Dear AKM
 
Yes you are right. Somewhat right.
 
It was Home Secretary GK PIllai who said that Kasab could be hanged within 8 months. But he also indicated that period conditional to "If he does not file any appeal anywhere".
 
Subsequently Law Minister Veerappa Moily did say that even if Kasab filed an appeal the case could be and should be fast-tracked and that Kasab will be hanged within a year.
 
I was not wrong about the queue system for clemency-appeals from Death Row. I read about that rule being followed. (just one example here : http://ibnlive.in.com/news/afzal-sushil-santosh-waiting-on-death-row/114683-3.html?from=trhs ) 
 
Obviously it is not so and even if there is some unwritten rule (as there seems to have been) then it  can be circumvented at the choice of the Executive as can be seen in the remarks of Abhishek Singhvi in this report : http://ibnlive.in.com/news/queue-not-caste-in-stone-in-kasabs-case-cong/114748-37-64.html?from=trhs
 
If the queue systen can be broken for fast-tracking for one set of reasons (in Kasab's case) then it can also be broken to delay for another set of reasons (in Afzal Guru's case).
 
Since, as you know, I am against the Death-Penalty, therefore I have no interest in exploring either set of reasons for either or any other case.
 
In an earlier mail I had mentioned 29 people being on the Death Row with Right of Appeal to President for Clemecy. I was wrong about that too. It would be more than 50. In August 2008 itself there were 50 as per response to a RTI petition. Details here:
http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/6488-50-clemency-pleas-pending-before-prez.html
 
Kshmendra


--- On Wed, 5/12/10, A.K. Malik <akmalik45 at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: A.K. Malik <akmalik45 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
To: "Kshmendra Kaul" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
Cc: "Sarai List" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 5:16 PM


Dear Mr Kaul,
             You must have seen Times of India newsitem wherein Mr Moilly, the Law Minister says that Kasab will be hanged in 8 months time even if he files appeal.What happened to the Queue system where mercy petitions are waiting? Is he going to break the Q for poor Kasab and leave Afzal living? Something is definitely fishy about Afzal being kept alive and not the Q system you had relied upon.
Regards,

(A.K.MALIK)


--- On Sun, 5/9/10, A.K. Malik <akmalik45 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: A.K. Malik <akmalik45 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> To: "Kshmendra Kaul" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "Sarai List" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Sunday, May 9, 2010, 11:54 AM
> Dear Mr Kaul,
>               I am sorry
> to interrupt the thread between you and Mr Bipin, but after reading 
> your post couldn't resist writing back.
> 1&2.There is no harm in having an opinion/point of view different than 
> what is the law in force.So long as it is not changed,the punishment 
> would be based on the Supreme Court verdict that death penalty should 
> be given only in rarest of rare cases and this is what has been done 
> by the Judge in the Kasab case.To give the convicted person a 
> safeguard against a wrong conviction of death penalty,it is mandatory 
> for the sentence to be ratified in the next higher court, in this case 
> Bombay High Court.
> If HC doesn't consider it as rearest of the rare case then it is a  
> different matter.
> 3.Ask the relatives of the persons killed by the barbaric act of the 
> terrorist who want the fellow to be hanged in public/shot dead without 
> trial even but the law of the land has prevailed and must prevail.
> 4. Everyone on the road knows why Afzal Guru is not being 
> hanged.Anything rest is all bullshit.You have written that"There is a 
> rule followed that each one will await its turn for being accepted or 
> being rejected. THIS IS  IMPORTANT.",just give a refernce to this rule 
> so that we also become aware.Even a clerk in Govt Office knows to 
> prioritise which file is to be sent early and which later but the 
> Delhi Govt can't make up its mind to send comments on Afzal's petition 
> in 5 years.Even if such a rule exists who stops the Govt from changing 
> it by executive directions-because no such rule exists at all. I say 
> almost all such "mercy petitions" have some or the other contacts in 
> political and bureaucracy and are intentionally being dragged. So long 
> live Afzal because the earlier petitions will never be decided in his 
> life time.May be if Kasab also gets the same stature as Afzal, he will 
> also live on.
> Yes, we belong to Gandhiji's land so we don't do anything to people 
> who come and kill us and would rather say come kill us and we will 
> give you immunity from being hanged and even punished and spend crores 
> of rupees for your safety.
> Long live Indian Politics!
> With regards,
> 
> (A.K.MALIK)
> 
> 
> --- On Sat, 5/8/10, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> > To: "Bipin Trivedi" <aliens at dataone.in>
> > Cc: "sarai-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Saturday, May 8, 2010, 7:37 PM Dear Bipin
> >  
> > We are talking in circles now. I will try to make this
> my
> > last post on this thread and you are most welcome to
> have
> > the final say.
> >  
> > 1. To answer the easier question. Yes, in my opinion,
> the
> > countries including India, USA, China, Pakistan and whosoever else, 
> > even if they total to 99% of the
> World
> > Population are BARBARIC in having the 'death penalty'
> as
> > punishment for any crime whatsoever. 
> >  
> >     I hope you understand that I am not calling
> these
> > countries 'barbaric' in their sum-total, but
> 'barbaric' with
> > regards to death-penalty.
> >  
> > 2. Yes our (Indian) Constitution permits the 'death penalty' and 
> > from my point of view that needs to be
> changed.
> > And, because I want to see that changed therefore my argument is not 
> > irrelevant but it is a mirror for
> showing
> > the barbarism of death-penalty existing in the
> Constitution
> > and the blood-lust of those who are scream for anyone
> at
> > all to be done to death for any crime whatsoever.
> >  
> > 3. My (and presumably other 'people like me') opposing
> the
> > 'death penalty' is not meant for saving one person but
> for
> > saving every person who might be awarded the death
> sentence
> > whether that person has killed 1 or a hundred or
> thousands.
> >  
> > 4. I tried to explain to you in the last mail why the
> delay
> > in execution of Afzal Guru is not 'minority
> appeasement' but
> > I seem to have been unsuccessful.
> >  
> >    There are reportedly 29 'mercy petitions' like
> that
> > of Afzal Guru lying pending with the President of
> India. 
> >  
> >    Afzal Guru was sentenced to death in 2004.
> >  
> >    Let me now give you some names of those who were awarded the 
> > death sentence before Afzal Guru and you
> might
> > realise that there is no 'minority appeasement' in
> play.
> >  
> >   Look at these names: Murugan; G.
> Perarivalan; Chinna
> > Shanthan;  Davinder Singh
> > Bhullar ;  Simon; Gnanprakasham; Meesekar Madaiah; Bilvendran; 
> > Gurdev Singh; Satnam
> Singh; Para
> > Singh; Sarabjit Singh; Praveen Kumar
> >  
> >    There is a rule followed that each one will await
> its
> > turn for being accepted or being rejected. THIS IS IMPORTANT. You 
> > have said that "Legal experts clearly
> says
> > there is no such law to go with queue for death
> sentence
> > matter." Will you please tell me which "Legal Experts"
> But,
> > isnt it logical that it should be turn by turn. 
> >  
> >    Your main argument for fast-tracking the
> execution of
> > Afzal Guru is "One must separate terrorists conviction
> with
> > other conviction. Due to our this terror soft
> approach, we
> > are unable to fight terror to the extent what actually
> we
> > should do."
> >  
> >    You are conveying that putting Afzal Guru to
> death
> > speedily will deter other terrorists from attacking
> India.
> >  
> >    In this I disagree with you and let me tell you
> why.
> > Bipin there is no evidence at all from any part of the
> World
> > that executing the 'death sentence' for any kind of a
> crime
> > leads to decrease in the incidence of that particular
> crime.
> > If you have any such evidence please do share it. You
> can
> > take the examples of the very countries you mentioned
> USA,
> > China, Pakistan and you can add to that all other
> countries
> > where the 'death penalty' is awarded and executed.
> >  
> > As I said earlier, you can have the final say.
> >  
> > Kshmendra
> >  
> > 
> > --- On Sat, 5/8/10, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > From: Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> > Subject: RE: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> > To: "'Kshmendra Kaul'" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: "sarai-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Saturday, May 8, 2010, 10:54 AM
> > 
> > 
> > Dear Kshemendra,
> > 
> > I have not at all missed the central point. Politician
> go
> > out of law for
> > their selfish motto, but not for terror conviction.
> What's
> > the reason? Can
> > you tell? Just because of political mileage, nothing
> else.
> > It's real problem
> > that people like you did not understand this. Because
> they
> > were punished as
> > terrorists activity and so the special case and not
> because
> > of their
> > religion. One must separate terrorists conviction
> with
> > other conviction. Due
> > to our this terror soft approach, we are unable to
> fight
> > terror to the
> > extent what actually we should do.
> > 
> > I have never mentioned that Afsalguru should be given priority for 
> > punishment because he belongs to minority, but due to terrorist act 
> > conviction only. Whoever involved in this and even in
> the
> > future any
> > religion should be treated as same for terror
> conviction.
> > 
> > Afsalguru case is clear minor appeasement for not
> executing
> > his conviction
> > and goes wrong message to terror groups and encourage
> them
> > further. Legal
> > experts clearly says there is no such law to go with
> queue
> > for death
> > sentence matter. Earlier such execution of death
> sentence
> > carried out, out
> > of turn in the couple of occasions. 
> > 
> > Constitution of India (SC) has already convicted
> death
> > sentence in 2006,
> > this cabinet for strange reason delaying it. So, this
> is
> > clear minor
> > appeasement case Dear Kshemendra. This is where
> congress
> > lack will to fight
> > terrorism.  
> > 
> > You personally oppose death sentence is altogether different issue. 
> > Our constitution permits death sentence, so you argument
> at
> > present is
> > irrelevant of blood thirsty animal from Indian point
> of
> > view. It is
> > unfortunate that people like you oppose death sentence
> for
> > the people who is
> > blood thirsty for hundreds or thousands of people. You
> want
> > to save the life
> > of one person who engaged in blood bath and take lives
> of
> > 100/1000 of
> > people!!! 
> > 
> > India is barbaric in your view by adopting death
> sentence
> > than those nation
> > like US, China, Pakistan and many more are also
> barbaric
> > for adopting this
> > law. This is about 70% of world population is
> barbaric
> > according to you!
> > 
> > Thanks
> > Bipin
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > From: Kshmendra Kaul [mailto:kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com]
> > 
> > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 4:10 PM
> > To: Bipin Trivedi
> > Cc: sarai-list
> > Subject: RE: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> > 
> > Dear Bipin
> >  
> > You have missed the central point. The Constitution
> of
> > India gives that
> > right to Ajmal Kasab and also to Afzal Guru.
> >  
> > FYI Afzal Guru is not the only one who's appeal for
> waiver
> > of 'death
> > penalty' is pending with the President. And most of
> the
> > others are Hindus.
> > So stop obsessing about 'appeasement of minorities' in
> this
> > case.
> >  
> > The Constitution of India is not so petty that it will
> be
> > changed just
> > because you or someone else or even if millions of
> Indians
> > want to deny
> > Kasab the tiered rights to Courts and appeal to
> President.
> >  
> > Bipin, one should not accuse others of behaving like blood-thirsty 
> > animals and then become a blood-thirsty animal
> himself/herself.
> >  
> > Kshmendra
> >  
> >  
> > --- On Fri, 5/7/10, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > From: Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> > Subject: RE: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> > To: "'Kshmendra Kaul'" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: "sarai-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Friday, May 7, 2010, 3:37 PM
> > Dear Kshemendra,
> >  
> > Parliament can and has right to make such decision if
> show
> > will. But,
> > congress cannot show such will, who prolonged even Afsalguru 
> > conviction keeping pending for so long for their vote bank
> politics.
> > Comparison with
> > Shah Bano for the reason of vote bank politics only
> to
> > appealing minor.
> > Reverting shah Bano verdict is classic example of
> minor
> > appeasement and the
> > same case with Afsalguru and I am fear for Kasav also
> same
> > thing might
> > happen.
> >  
> > Thanks
> > Bipin
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > From: Kshmendra Kaul [mailto:kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com]
> > 
> > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 1:35 PM
> > To: sarai-list; Bipin Trivedi
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> >  
> > Dear Bipin
> >  
> > A. I am against the death penalty for anyone for any
> crime
> > whatsoever. I
> > believe the 'death penalty' is awarded in barbaric societies, and 
> > yes, India is still barbaric in many ways.
> >  
> > B. You might disagree on the above. That does not
> change
> > the opportunity
> > allowed in India for anyone convicted in a crime in a
> Lower
> > Court to take
> > the matter to a Higher Cour.  
> >  
> >      Since it is a question of a 'death penalty',
> Kasab
> > has the right to
> > have his case heard by the Higher Courts right upto
> the
> > Supreme Court. After
> > that he has the right to appeal to the President for
> waiver
> > of the 'death
> > penalty'. The Constitution of India provides that
> right.
> > You cannot compare
> > Civil Law of the Shah Bano case witha 'death penalty'
> being
> > awarded. 
> >  
> >      No one can take that right away from Kasab.
> >  
> > Kshmendra
> >   
> >  
> > --- On Thu, 5/6/10, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> > wrote:
> >  
> > From: Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> > Subject: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> > To: "sarai-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Thursday, May 6, 2010, 3:33 PM AS EXPECTED, KASAV RIGHTLY GOT 
> > DEATH SENTENCE.
> >  
> > Though terrorist's Kasav case was crystal clear, but
> still
> > we have gone for
> > about 17 months fair trial and proved that how
> transparent
> > our judicial
> > system is unlike Pakistan. But, after this trial and judgment, he 
> > should not allow to appeal in the higher court and should be
> hanged in
> > public
> > immediately without further judicial procedure. if
> Indira
> > Gandhi (ex PM)
> > deny to obey court verdict and neglect law and Shah
> Banu
> > case was revert out
> > of law by parliament than why cannot this? India
> should
> > show the world that
> > country cannot compromise in integrity and take hard
> action
> > if required like
> > open public death sentence.
> >  
> > Thanks
> > Bipin
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with 
> > subscribe in the subject header.
> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with 
> > subscribe in the subject header.
> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> 
> 
> 
> 






      
_________________________________________
reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
Critiques & Collaborations
To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.
To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>

_________________________________________
reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
Critiques & Collaborations
To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.
To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>




More information about the reader-list mailing list