[Urbanstudy] Re: Nangla Machi

[shveta at sarai.net]

Dear Sanjay,

I am intrigued by your mail. It is as if you are encountering lives, which
can only be understood as suffering subjects. Can all lives be understood
through this trope?

How is that the case? Is it a mode of engagement? Or perhaps the only mode
of engagement possible with the "other" (other to the anthropologist)? Are
there no other terms possible by which two people encounter each other, see
each other?

Are "anguish" and "helplessness" all that you encounter in the persons that
you meet in Nangla? Is that the only speech act you are witness to? Are
these the only terms accessible to you through which you can share with us
a relationship? Surely, you see more than "suffering subjects" in people
you have met and have months of relationship with, leading into the present.

Or is it that you expect this is what the list demands! Surely not!!

looking forward,
best
shveta


> >  Dear Jibesh,
> >
> >  The question of 'distance' is an important one, and not one that
> >  can be easily
> >  set apart by itself. Of course, it is true that in many senses I
> >  am, indeed, distanced from the lives of those in Nangla. Perhaps
> >  similar to those others like me who have not had to see their
> >  houses and shops being demolished. I certainly don't wish to (and
> >  didn't in my earlier message) wish to express my own sense of
> >  'anguish' and 'helplessness' as this can too easily position an
> outsider as the one as the suffering one. There is enough of
> >  anthropological and sociological empathy with the suffering
> >  subject around, and after a point,
> >  it becomes self-serving. To suffer philosophically doesn't hurt
> >  nearly as much
> >  as to suffer historically (or, 'actually').
> >
> >  However, the question remains, how to, write from a position of
> >  relative privilege about those who may not be thus positioned.
> >  This, surely has been the
> >   situation in which virtually all Indian social scientists find
> >  themselves, whether articulated or not. And, speaking for myself,
> >  I have certainly learnt from the writings of those who have not
> >  themselves been the subjects of communal violence, the Union
> >  Carbide disaster, gender violence, Emergency-related violence etc.
> >
> >  As for how 'administrative and state violence is lived', it should
> >  be clear that
> >  my account is always going to be partial (and to some extent
> >  'fictional', ie. constructed out of fragments). But perhaps I
> >  share that with many others. I certainly have no sense that what I
> >  might have to say is going to be a 'better'
> >  one than some other. It definitely can not reproduce embodied
> >  suffering. That's
> >  the proper limitation of all such work, one that can be undone by
> >  someone else
> >  working in a different context.
> >
> >  As should be clear from above, I am very wary of stating that I am
> >  ever going to
> >  be able to 'properly' represent violence experienced by others;
> >  that would only
> >  trivialise what has actually happened at Nangla. However, given
> >  these limitations, what can one do but work out some secon-hand
> >  strategy ( at least for myself) of entanglement? An example, as
> >  inadequate as it may be. For the past 3-4 months I've been
> >  involved in the case of an elderly man, a resident of
> >  Nangla, who one afternoon, simply disappeared. He appears to have
> >  been very active in mediating between the Nangla people and, among
> >  others, the police. And, and as far the Nangla people are
> >  concerned, he was quite fearless in his dealings with the the
> >  latter. Many seem to think that he was kidnapped by the police,
> >  and, since November 2005 nothing has been heard of him. To cut a
> long story short, since then, a group of Nangla people and myself have
> >  met and visited police stations, Patiala House (courthouse),
> >  police officers (ACPs, SIs, ASIs, constables), lawyers etc.
> >  Eventually, this led to the filing of a Right to Information (RTI)
> >  petitition, after further visits to the RTI office,
> >  the police, etc etc. Now that Nangla is to be scattered, all this
> >  will probably
> >  come to nothing, since residents may not be able to organise over
> >  the issue, living in different parts of the city, or having to
> >  leave it altogether. Unfortunately, I can only narrate the complex
> >  violence of the state, through trying to focus on its different
> >  sites (so what is happening at Nangla is also,
> >  I feel, linked to urban 'movements' such as the Delhi govt.
> >  sponsored 'Bhagidari'). So, my account (of the state, violence,
> >  whatever), is really an attempt at distancing only in the most
> >  literal sense of the term: how does one
> >  understand urban reality as a consequence of a number of related
> >  contexts, since actual violence is always born out of a wider and
> >  connected social context. And finally, I think that the state is
> >  not 'out there', we are the state. And if we have sense of 'state
> >  violence', we also have some sense of our
> >  own those proclivities,attitudes, and desires. That's one of the
> >  ways I hope to
> >  write about 'state violence', as different from the embodied
> >  violence experienced by those at Nangla. The two stories, as I am
> >  sure you recognise, can't be the same, though hopefully they will
> >  not be seen as mutually exclusive, or, antagonistic.
> >
> >  Best Wishes,
> >  Sanjay
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  ------------------------------
> >
> >  Message: 2
> >  Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 12:15:23 +0530
> >  From: "Ramya Swayamprakash" <ramya.swayamprakash at gmail.com>
> >  Subject: [Urbanstudy] correction
> >  To: urbanstudygroup at sarai.net
> >  Message-ID:
> >      <43d896ab0604072345t6c6ee387x4f343318cf1f4c2c at mail.gmail.com>
> >  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> >  Dear all,
> >  I fogot to add that the question and comments that follow each
> >  category are my questions. It sorta my way of mind mapping. I
> >  forgot to mention that in the post.
> >
> >  Cheers,
> >  ~Ramya~
> >  Text and voice 91-9869513903
> >  Blog: http://quixoticgnat.blogspot.com
> >  ---------------------------------
> >  Life...is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a
> >  few pips in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast.
> >  Douglas Adams
> >  ---------------------------------
> >  -------------- next part --------------
> >  An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >  URL:
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> >
> >  ------------------------------
> >
> >  Message: 3
> >  Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 15:23:04 +0530
> >  From: "sebastian Rodrigues" <sebydesiolim at hotmail.com>
> >  Subject: RE: [Urbanstudy] Re: Nangla Machi
> >  To: sanjays at deakin.edu.au, urbanstudygroup at sarai.net
> >  Message-ID: <BAY116-F20AA3CB9F5A47CFCE80B78DECE0 at phx.gbl>
> >  Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
> >
> >  Dear Sanjay,
> >
> >  In response to Jeebesh you say the following towards the end "And
> >  finally, I think that the state is not 'out there', we are the
> >  state."  This 'we' includes who? the middle class? The
> >  Academicians who are not the survivors of disasaters such as you
> >  point out "communal violence, the Union Carbide disaster, gender
> >  violence, Emergency-related violence etc."? Do you believe in any
> >  boundaries between the State and Civil Society? If yes then where
> > did your "we" fit in?.
> >  I must admit while I question all this to you I am one of the
> >  survivors from one of the disasters related to mining where my
> >  home did rot in mining dust and I was not the State. Or was I? If
> >  yes then I acted violently against myself?
> >
> >  Seby.
> >
> >
> > > From: Sanjay Srivastava <sanjays at deakin.edu.au>
> > > To: urbanstudygroup at sarai.net
> > > Subject: [Urbanstudy] Re: Nangla Machi
> > > Date: Sat,  8 Apr 2006 10:33:16 +0530
> > >
> > > This is a response to Diya and Jibesh.
> > >
> > > Dear Diya,
> > > You ask why NM is an exception in terms of people not getting
> > > land (though I
> > > hope this proves to be wrong). Frankly, it isn't clear why,
> > > though perhaps it
> > > might be that the High Court and other authorities feel that
> > > Yamuna-related land  is so 'valuable' that whoever has
> > > 'encroached' upon it, deserves no mercy. The river itself has
> > > become an semi-religious entity superior to the humans rather
> > > than the both being a part of the urban cultural and political
> > > economy. Of course, there is also the mass of influential
> > > 'public' opinion that
> > > gathers around a mystical environmentalism within which the urban
> > > poor, at the
> > > same time that they service the well-off are also hived off from
> > > their lives in
> > > favour of a 'clean environment'.
> > >
> > > Secondly, the land at NM is owned by a number of different
> > > agencies, or, at least, more than one will be held financially
> > > liable if any resettlement plan
> > > does come through. These have carried out their own surveys to
> > > see how many have settled on their patch of land and hence what
> > > their liability might be.
> > > Quite clearly, they would be quite happy if no resettlement plan
> > > was ever to
> > > come through. While on the hand the concretness of the state is
> > > manifest in ideas of statutory bodies and surveys (which will
> > > lead to specific results),
> > > just as often the multiplicity of state procedures  and
> > > authorities can be the
> > > black-hole where human aspirations disappear. The irony is that
> > > those who stand
> > > to be most discriminated by the state often have the most (and
> > > are forced to
> > > have the most) intense relationship with it.
> > >
> > > There are also rumours (and very much rumours) about the role of
> > > local politicians in all this.
> > >
> > > I don't know if any of the above is explanation for might happen
> > > to those still
> > > there are Nangla, but perhaps others have different points of
> > > view.
> > > Regards,
> > > Sanjay
> > >
> > > Dear Jibesh,
> > >
> > > The question of 'distance' is an important one, and not one that
> > > can be easily
> > > set apart by itself. Of course, it is true that in many senses I
> > > am, indeed,
> > > distanced from the lives of those in Nangla. Perhaps similar to
> > > those others
> > > like me who have not had to see their houses and shops being
> > > demolished. I certainly don't wish to (and didn't in my earlier
> > > message) wish to express my
> > > own sense of 'anguish' and 'helplessness' as this can too easily
> > > position an
> > > outsider as the one as the suffering one. There is enough of
> > > anthropological
> > > and sociological empathy with the suffering subject around, and
> > > after a point,
> > > it becomes self-serving. To suffer philosophically doesn't hurt
> > > nearly as much
> > > as to suffer historically (or, 'actually').
> > >
> > > However, the question remains, how to, write from a position of
> > > relative privilege about those who may not be thus positioned.
> > > This, surely has been the
> > >   situation in which virtually all Indian social scientists find
> > > themselves,
> > > whether articulated or not. And, speaking for myself, I have
> > > certainly learnt
> > > from the writings of those who have not themselves been the
> > > subjects of communal violence, the Union Carbide disaster, gender
> > > violence, Emergency-related violence etc.
> > >
> > > As for how 'administrative and state violence is lived', it
> > > should be clear that
> > > my account is always going to be partial (and to some extent
> > > 'fictional', ie.
> > > constructed out of fragments). But perhaps I share that with many
> > > others. I certainly have no sense that what I might have to say
> > > is going to be a 'better'
> > > one than some other. It definitely can not reproduce embodied
> > > suffering. That's
> > > the proper limitation of all such work, one that can be undone by
> > > someone else
> > > working in a different context.
> > >
> > > As should be clear from above, I am very wary of stating that I
> > > am ever going to
> > > be able to 'properly' represent violence experienced by others;
> > > that would only
> > > trivialise what has actually happened at Nangla. However, given
> > > these limitations, what can one do but work out some secon-hand
> > > strategy ( at least
> > > for myself) of entanglement? An example, as inadequate as it may
> > > be. For the
> > > past 3-4 months I've been involved in the case of an elderly man,
> > > a resident of
> > > Nangla, who one afternoon, simply disappeared. He appears to have
> > > been very active in mediating between the Nangla people and,
> > > among others, the police.
> > > And, and as far the Nangla people are concerned, he was quite
> > > fearless in his
> > > dealings with the the latter. Many seem to think that he was
> > > kidnapped by the
> > > police, and, since November 2005 nothing has been heard of him.
> > > To cut a long
> > > story short, since then, a group of Nangla people and myself have
> > > met and visited police stations, Patiala House (courthouse),
> > > police officers (ACPs, SIs, ASIs, constables), lawyers etc.
> > > Eventually, this led to the filing of a
> > > Right to Information (RTI) petitition, after further visits to
> > > the RTI office,
> > > the police, etc etc. Now that Nangla is to be scattered, all this
> > > will probably
> > > come to nothing, since residents may not be able to organise over
> > > the issue,
> > > living in different parts of the city, or having to leave it
> > > altogether. Unfortunately, I can only narrate the complex
> > > violence of the state, through
> > > trying to focus on its different sites (so what is happening at
> > > Nangla is also,
> > > I feel, linked to urban 'movements' such as the Delhi govt.
> > > sponsored 'Bhagidari'). So, my account (of the state, violence,
> > > whatever), is really an
> > > attempt at distancing only in the most literal sense of the term:
> > > how does one
> > > understand urban reality as a consequence of a number of related
> > > contexts, since actual violence is always born out of a wider and
> > > connected social context. And finally, I think that the state is
> > > not 'out there', we are the state. And if we have sense of 'state
> > > violence', we also have some sense of our
> > > own those proclivities,attitudes, and desires. That's one of the
> > > ways I hope to
> > > write about 'state violence', as different from the embodied
> > > violence experienced by those at Nangla. The two stories, as I am
> > > sure you recognise,
> > > can't be the same, though hopefully they will not be seen as
> > > mutually exclusive, or, antagonistic.
> > >
> > > Best Wishes,
> > > Sanjay
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Urbanstudygroup mailing list
> > > Urban Study Group: Reading the South Asian City
> > >
> > > To subscribe or browse the Urban Study Group archives, please
> > > visit https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/urbanstudygroup
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  ------------------------------
> >
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> >  Urbanstudygroup mailing list
> >  Urbanstudygroup at sarai.net
> >  https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/urbanstudygroup
> >
> >
> >  End of Urbanstudygroup Digest, Vol 26, Issue 12
> >  ***********************************************
> >
>
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